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  #4537  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 11:43 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Kalagrith has been removed from the process by the owner's request. It would have been removed anyway since I was about to change my vote to ; I somehow missed the Range 2 in the special attack. Range 2 is really strange in Heroscape without a Reach-like height restriction. The Baron thing doesn't bother me; at least not any more than King did when Charos was first released.

Urk has received 4 Yea votes to review (capsocrates, Scytale, Soundwarp SG-1, and Son of Arathorn) and moves forward in the process.

Last edited by Scytale; February 2nd, 2015 at 02:41 PM.
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  #4538  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 11:55 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Ashi-Duhlu's Devour is better than Grimnak's Chomp, so this unit appears overpowered and/or under priced.
Grimnak has bonding. Ashi-Dhulu does not. That's 5 attacks per turn vs 1. Devour only works against small and medium Common squads and heroes; Chomp works against all small and medium figures, with the d20 roll for heroes. One-on-One Ashi-Dhulu's better than Grimnak, yes, but Grimnak is not played nor meant to be played solo; he's a cheerleader and screenbreaker for Orcs, and as such Grimnak's better than Ashi-Dhulu. If you're drafting Grimnak for just Chomp, without getting any Orcs, you're using him wrong (unless you're facing a bunch of Unique squads).

It's an apple to pear comparison; they look very similar at first glance, but the textures are very different when you take a bite.
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  #4539  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 12:10 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Elgos Knights are a nice and nasty addition to the pantheon of unique squads, and more generally useful than the Ebon Armor.
The Ebon Armor definitely need to be built around to maximize their effectiveness, although starting with 4 figures with 4 attack gives them an advantage in starting fire power at the very least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Viceron has a lot of cool stuff going on for perhaps too few points - compare to Cyprien.
Okay, compare away to Cyprien. Cyprien destorys Viceron in a head-to-head fight almost 70% of the time, nearly 80 if Sonya is also around. The Vampire Lord can potentially double up on life drain in a turn and 8 move + stealth flying gives him insane reach and versatility.

Viceron shines brightest against squads, particularly lower attack squads where his defense can hold up. Cyprien otherwise outstrips him against all but soulborg heroes and can still do well against squads (that is not to say that Viceron is useless against heroes either, but he is strictly worse than someone like Siege in a duel).
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  #4540  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 12:13 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Ashi-Duhlu's Devour is better than Grimnak's Chomp, so this unit appears overpowered and/or under priced.
Grimnak has bonding. Ashi-Dhulu does not. That's 5 attacks per turn vs 1. Devour only works against small and medium Common squads and heroes; Chomp works against all small and medium figures, with the d20 roll for heroes. One-on-One Ashi-Dhulu's better than Grimnak, yes, but Grimnak is not played nor meant to be played solo; he's a cheerleader and screenbreaker for Orcs, and as such Grimnak's better than Ashi-Dhulu. If you're drafting Grimnak for just Chomp, without getting any Orcs, you're using him wrong (unless you're facing a bunch of Unique squads).
Or you happen to only have the original master set. The obvious synergy with figures they don't give you was such a cheeky way to drive sales...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Ashi-Duhlu's Devour is better than Grimnak's Chomp, so this unit appears overpowered and/or under priced.
As Mega said, there's really no comparison - Grimmnak's a bonding hero, through and through - Ashi's a stand-alone

Quote:
Viceron has a lot of cool stuff going on for perhaps too few points - compare to Cyprien.
While they both regenerate on kills, again there's no comparison - Viceron's a tank with an average, non-flying move and an area of affect attack. Cyprien's incredible manoeuverability and defence ignoring, potentially multi-wounding Chilling Touch are some of his greatest assets - they are nothing like each other.
Also - should be compare with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post

The Judges have decided to change the submission rules. Historically the SoV has been limited to singular submissions, making it difficult for custom creators to nominate units that rely on synergy with each other. The first rule of the Submission Guidelines has been changed to:
Quote:
1. Any number of units may be nominated in a single post, including "synergistic" units that function best as a group. When nominating multiple units, you may choose one of four options for your submission: a) Choose a unit to be the "primary" unit of the submission, and the rest to be "secondary" units. The "primary" unit may pass by itself without the "secondary" units passing, but if the "primary" unit fails, all "secondary" units will be withdrawn. "Secondary" units will be judged based on the "primary" unit.
b) Designate the entire submission as a "faction". For a "faction" submission, if a single unit fails, the remainder of the "faction" will be withdrawn.
c) Choose a group of units (more than one but less than the total number of submissions) to be the "primary" group and the remainder to be the "secondary" group. The "primary" group will be considered as a "faction" under Section 1-1b, and the "secondary" units will be considered as "secondary" units under Section 1-1a in relation to the "primary" group.
d) All units stand or fall on their own merit, as if they were separate nominations.
Though I'm known for being critical of your process, I think this is a genuinely excellent change. Good call!


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  #4541  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 12:47 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

If I were to submit a hero for consideration, would "unknown" be acceptable for his class? A hero who can not be slotted into any box of class type.

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  #4542  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 12:49 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I would lean towards no, but it would depend on the card. If you put it up in a thread like the Pre-SoV Workshop, you could get some specific feedback.

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  #4543  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 12:53 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
I would lean towards no, but it would depend on the card. If you put it up in a thread like the Pre-SoV Workshop, you could get some specific feedback.
I second that.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #4544  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 01:42 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by clancampbell View Post
If I were to submit a hero for consideration, would "unknown" be acceptable for his class? A hero who can not be slotted into any box of class type.
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  #4545  
Old December 5th, 2014, 10:12 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'd like to re-nominate Kalagrith, a Icarian Dragon.



Kalagrith The Bronze! A really fun dragon that follows in the footsteps of Charos with a Melee theme. The range of 2 on the special attack gives him some flexibility, however limited. The special attack gives the image of the dragon swooping in, taking a couple of attacks from the air(Though can be on the ground) with his powerful wing buffets. A theme I think that has been missing for Dragons in Heroscape.

The Miniature is from Pathfinder's latest release Lost Coast. Augguies currently has 15 on hand for 8.99 each. This figure is currently in production and should be available for a while. Other websites have it listed for a higher price.

The Miniature itself is FANTASTIC, I have attached several screen shots for you to get a feel of the miniature. It will be on a double large base, Similar to the size of Charos's base. The paint job is great, it feels like it was made specifically for heroscape.

I have a couple of other screen shots up at my customs thread. Larger than Othkurik and Racheim, not as large as Charos.

Key Points to make out.

Special attack name change - Too many Heroscapers walked away from the SOV thread hungry and there was a sharp rise to the profits of Buffalo Wild Wings... Several good suggestions came in, and I think this one gives it the feel we are looking for.

Change from Baron to Prince - Following in the footsteps of most dragons in heroscape, they are a class of Royalty. While not a King like Charos or Nilf, Kalagrith is formidable and has gained a following in Icaria. Earning himself the title of Prince. The idea of the title is to represent a smaller form of Honor/Nobility much like Moltenclaw.

Ullar as General - Much of the history I had for Bronze Dragons came from D&D lore. And in Designing him, I kept some of that in mind. Key reasons why Ullar would summon Kalagrith to his aid.
  • Good Dragon
  • Green serpent features
  • Almost Melee Dragon, close to Charos in that sense




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  #4546  
Old December 5th, 2014, 11:06 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Unfortunately Kalagrith goes into a weak area of the rules, Flying. Does a figure even occupy a space while flying? Normally one would say yes, but a flier can also exist in a space where it cannot fit, such as inside a glacier. Flying is one of those "play it how you think it should work" powers.

I don't like Range 2, plain and simple. The use of height in Heroscape when it comes to attacking at range is extremely simplistic, making it weird in some situations. This is exaggerated at extremes, like low range. But there is a reason for it here: Range 1 doesn't work while flying (not engaged with anything). So is it worth the oddity?

I don't know. It's not a design I like, but I can see the reasons and it may work as a whole. I guess I'm willing to try it.

to review Kalagrith
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  #4547  
Old December 5th, 2014, 11:10 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
I'd like to re-nominate Kalagrith, a Icarian Dragon.



Kalagrith The Bronze! A really fun dragon that follows in the footsteps of Charos with a Melee theme. The range of 2 on the special attack gives him some flexibility, however limited. The special attack gives the image of the dragon swooping in, taking a couple of attacks from the air(Though can be on the ground) with his powerful wing buffets. A theme I think that has been missing for Dragons in Heroscape.

The Miniature is from Pathfinder's latest release Lost Coast. Augguies currently has 15 on hand for 8.99 each. This figure is currently in production and should be available for a while. Other websites have it listed for a higher price.

The Miniature itself is FANTASTIC, I have attached several screen shots for you to get a feel of the miniature. It will be on a double large base, Similar to the size of Charos's base. The paint job is great, it feels like it was made specifically for heroscape.

I have a couple of other screen shots up at my customs thread. Larger than Othkurik and Racheim, not as large as Charos.

Key Points to make out.

Special attack name change - Too many Heroscapers walked away from the SOV thread hungry and there was a sharp rise to the profits of Buffalo Wild Wings... Several good suggestions came in, and I think this one gives it the feel we are looking for.

Change from Baron to Prince - Following in the footsteps of most dragons in heroscape, they are a class of Royalty. While not a King like Charos or Nilf, Kalagrith is formidable and has gained a following in Icaria. Earning himself the title of Prince. The idea of the title is to represent a smaller form of Honor/Nobility much like Moltenclaw.

Ullar as General - Much of the history I had for Bronze Dragons came from D&D lore. And in Designing him, I kept some of that in mind. Key reasons why Ullar would summon Kalagrith to his aid.
  • Good Dragon
  • Green serpent features
  • Almost Melee Dragon, close to Charos in that sense



Kinseth, is it generating wind force with it's wings as he flies by (which would explain the range) to attack the enemy? Or is it slicing with them? That might help with some of the judges thoughts to show why it's range two without reach.

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  #4548  
Old December 5th, 2014, 02:21 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'm not 100% sure the General is right (which is not to say it is wrong). I've already stated that I like the idea of the Special Attack--we'll just have to see if it feels right on the table.

to review Kalgarith.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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Last edited by capsocrates; December 8th, 2014 at 07:31 PM. Reason: removed vote pending availability concerns
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