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  #4369  
Old November 12th, 2014, 04:38 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Also, really D_S, 12 days into the month you come up with "no posts this month"? Don't quit your day job, because I think you're probably good at it.
What's his job?

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  #4370  
Old November 12th, 2014, 04:40 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Kevindola just posted in the thread, dok. The previous post is dated 10/15/14. Today is 11/12/14. Maybe not a full month, I am guilty as charged, but only short by two or three days. Or no days, if the month is February.


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  #4371  
Old November 12th, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Kevindola just posted in the thread, dok. The previous post is dated 10/15/14. Today is 11/12/14. Maybe not a full month, I am guilty as charged, but only short by two or three days. Or no days, if the month is February.
Irregardless, it's a mute point if the votes get in by the end of the four month window.

Last edited by dok; November 12th, 2014 at 04:43 PM. Reason: We have a defined goal. if we meet it then we meet it.
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  #4372  
Old November 12th, 2014, 04:43 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Evil, evil man.

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  #4373  
Old November 12th, 2014, 04:55 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The SoV charter originally had a clause about dropping Judges who failed to get reviews in fast enough. It was based on the original rules where all Judges looked at all units, though, so it had to be revised. We decided to just drop it because it isn't really an issue; Judges step down on their own. Besides, even the best of us can have rough stretches where real life issues interferes.

I've become quite the nag lately too, so if someone here isn't pulling their weight they'll be crushed by my incessant nagging.
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  #4374  
Old November 12th, 2014, 05:05 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I don't question that the judging task is harder and more time-consuming for custom cards than it is for maps. Furthermore, I think this point is key:
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If we do not deliver quality every time the whole premise of our system comes into question.
This is something that a project like WoS just doesn't have to worry about.

To wit: consider the BoV. Of the seven maps they approved in their first year and change, only one of them (H&D) sees any significant tournament use these days. The others are basically forgotten to the history of the game. As a community, we've changed and refined our standards on maps over time, and become more discriminating about what is considered a top-tier map. A map like Mole Hills wouldn't get the time of day from the BoV judges these days, but it really doesn't matter that it was accepted.

Contrast that with C3V/SoV. The situation is largely the same when it comes to underpowered figures - they will be forgotten by competitive players and occasionally pulled out for fun by others. But just one broken-good design does call the entire project into question. We have, in my estimation, produced three "A" ranked figures in the entire VC era, and all three of them have, to varying degrees, produced rants about how we have broken things and customs are unacceptable. Again, this is "A" rank stuff we're talking about, and we've produced those at a slower rate than classic did, to say nothing of the A+ figures.

So yeah, you do have to tread carefully - at least, if you're not willing to pull a design after release.
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  #4375  
Old November 12th, 2014, 05:56 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
A map like Mole Hills wouldn't get the time of day from the BoV judges these days, but it really doesn't matter that it was accepted.
FWIW, Mole Hills: Jungle Edition is much better and more fun.

Last edited by MegaSilver; November 12th, 2014 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Comments more directed to topic may come later: gtg right now!
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  #4376  
Old November 12th, 2014, 10:27 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
So basically you are upset because we are not any of these:

etc.
Ok then the problem is that you just take too much time to apply a sceal of approval.
That's why I am "upset".
It takes how long it takes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I simply don't play Heroscape often enough to test the SoV units AND test other units enough by myself to feel they are ready. It was difficult to make time for al'Kahora and has been impossible to find time for other units I wanted to submit.
OK it's because you don't have time. I thought it was because "you are not in the business of changing other's people customs".
No, the SoV is not in the business of changing other people's customs.

I don't know why you think my time for helping people with their customs has to do with the mission statement of the SoV.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
If you feel like a group should be workshopping units, and working publicly and quickly, as a group, to improve them, and if you feel like that would lead to something good for the hobby and it isn't being done, then start it. Be the change you want to see. Nothing is stopping you.
Man what do you think I do in the french forums?
We were working on a 3rd card to submit (goblin unique squad to make the HSB+Goblin army playable) it was starting to be good but we got bored up because having his custom accepted takes too much time. And by the time it takes the units may not be still avalaible enough.
You should finish it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
Also we stopped working on Kheris after he had a NO as we still don't understand what was precisely the problem and we didn't know what to change without changing the original nature of the custom. So we choosed to not resubmit him and to keep him as he is.
I believe the reviews discussed his issues. If you put him in any of the workshop threads I'm sure the relevant judges would be happy to share further thoughts and suggestions in greater detail.

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  #4377  
Old November 13th, 2014, 02:13 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I would like to nominate my custom, Viceron the Blood Knight, for consideration by the SoV judges.



Balance Viceron the Blood Knight is a lone hero with limited survivability, somewhat offset by his Sanguine Sword power. He is quickly outclassed in a head to head fight by many other melee heroes, but his true strength lies in his ability to face squads. His higher defense can hold up better to typically lower attacks, Sanguine Sword will more readily trigger and, if he is willing to use his own blood to fuel an attack, his Unholy Sacrifice can blast through low life figures.
Playability The Thrall of Blackrazor is a prepainted D&D miniature and can function in Heroscape without any rebasing or further treatment. His powers are clear and are similar to existing powers. His master stats fit his size, type and equipment. His striking white hair and red cape make him visually distinct from other figures.
Creativity Viceron uses life as an interesting resource that provides decisions throughout. Choosing to use Unholy Sacrifice over his normal attack can at times be a 2 life swing, and his life is low enough that simply spamming his ability is not an option. While his blast is similar to that of Brimstone, the constant attack and life management make them play very differently.
Theme Viceron the Blood Knight, hated and feared on his home world. He knows that there is no cost too great in the name of victory and is ready to use his own blood as a reagent to unleash terrible and powerful magic. He compensates for his sacrifices with his enchanted sword, capable of draining the life force out of those he slays and reinvigorating him.
Accessibility The figure is the Thrall of Blackrazor from D&D Miniatures - Unhallowed. They were previously abundant on abprices but the stock there has rapidly diminished lately (and made me worry). After performing a search, I was able to drum up 93 figures, not including paizo's stock.

Thank you for your consideration.

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  #4378  
Old November 13th, 2014, 02:46 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Really not feeling the special attack's name there. 'Unholy Sacrifice' sounds more like sacrificing other people, not a self sacrifice. Doesn't really convey anything about the power to me, and it doesn't help me visualize it at all.

So as long as the SA has that name I guess.

Also, to the Elgos Knights since I forgot to do that apparently.


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  #4379  
Old November 13th, 2014, 03:04 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Warden 722 by dok

I hear the shuttle a comin'
It's warping round the bend
And I ain't seen Alpha Prime since I don't know when,
I'm stuck in Isadora prison, and time keeps draggin' on
But will Warden 722 keep a rollin' on down to the Soldiers of Valhalla?

Balance

Nothing glaring here, he has decent enough stats and makes for a nice cheap bonding option for the Zettian Infantry. His closest comparison is his fellow Warden, trading in 2 points of range and Guard Leadership for 15 points off and Large immunities. Their special attacks are quite different, and Warden 722 is the more offensive of the two, but overall they seem reasonably balanced and neither really obsoletes the other as a bonding option.

Theme

The general idea of the unit is pretty solid, his name matches up with Warden 816 and Tormenting is a great fit for an evil prison warden. I'm not a fan of using a miniature that's obviously from Star Wars, but that ship sailed long before I even became a judge.

My biggest problem with the Warden is Electrical Pulse only affecting Unique figures. I could see it if it only worked on Unique Heroes, they have to still be alive to get stunned or some such, but if it works on Unique Squads, it means the energy can 'arc' to someone else, and I don't see why it only 'arcs' with Uniques and not Commons. Yes, there are other powers with Unique only restrictions, but only when they would shatter the game to pieces if they worked on everyone. Mind Shackle might be a bit unthematic only working on Uniques, but seeing as the other option is just not having a mind-control power like that at all, I can forgive it. The Mind Flayer Mastermind having basically the same power as the Warden, except lacking the Unique restriction, proves there isn't a dire mechanical need in this case. Unless the Warden is powered by raw Marxism, whose electrical energy only sees fit to punish the hedonistic bourgeois while leaving the noble proletariat be, I'm just not seeing the theme in the Unique only restriction compared to the Mind Flayer. Admittedly, it is a minor breach in theme, but when it's one that doesn’t have any justification and flies directly against precedence it's hard for me to ignore.

Creativity

The Warden only has one power to his name, and it's basically the same as the Mind Flayer's Mind Blast but with a bonus against Soulborgs instead of the ability to shoot through walls. The Warden still manages to feel unique though, and there is nothing wrong with simplicity as long as it gets the feel of the unit across.


Playability

The Warden makes a decent secondary bonding option for the Zettian Infantry, he shouldn't be your first choice for the role, but it's nice that they have a cheap back-up Hero with him around.

My problem comes down to the Unique restriction on Electrical Pulse again, I'm just not a fan of how it plays. Against non-Soulborg Common Squads, it's basically useless unless they happen to have an inherent weakness to special attacks, it also does nothing to bonding heroes and support heroes like Raelin the majority of the time, but against solo Unique Heroes and Unique Squads it can be absolutely devastating when it hits. Considering a fair bit of that group isn't especially competitive in the first place (and most of the ones that are have enough range to avoid the Pulse behind a screen or something), it just doesn't seem like a good addition to the game. In a lot of my games it felt like the Warden either effectively had no special powers at all, or he was just throwing salt into the wound when his team was probably going to win anyway.

Summary

Overall, Warden 722 is really close to perfect, but I just couldn't get past the Unique only restriction. I don't think it makes sense thematically and I don't care for it game-play wise either. It's a minor flaw, but it's still a flaw in my opinion, and the SoV is for great units, not just good ones.

I vote to induct Warden 722 to the SoV.


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  #4380  
Old November 13th, 2014, 09:25 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Sound warp, do you mean the last line as to say its a minor flaw that causes a major problem? I'm a little confused, and that's how I interpret it, and if you do mean that I tend to agree.

Mimring>Krug. 'Nuff said.
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