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  #2809  
Old January 25th, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
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Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements.
I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier (Although I suppose that was obvious)

And also I just like Valkrill
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  #2810  
Old January 25th, 2013, 04:21 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by greygnarl View Post
Woot, here's to somebody other than Scytale getting a review done. Don't get me wrong, I love what the SoV is doing but this tales a hell of a long time. I really hope to see Kheris or Brimstone pass.
I know four of us are working on Brimstone actively right now, so (don't quote me) but he should have some votes in soon-ish.

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  #2811  
Old January 25th, 2013, 04:27 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier (Although I suppose that was obvious)
True, though most of Kantono Daishi's points are due to Dishonorable Leadership. Might be worth a little playtesting to see if he can be used as a blocking unit in a Vydar army, but I doubt it.
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  #2812  
Old January 25th, 2013, 05:07 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Without dishonorable leadership, he's a 4-life Izumi Samurai with Phantom Walk. For 120 points, that doesn't really sound like a figure worth considering.
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  #2813  
Old January 25th, 2013, 06:43 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
Without dishonorable leadership, he's a 4-life Izumi Samurai with Phantom Walk. For 120 points, that doesn't really sound like a figure worth considering.
Even in a heroes only environment? It might be worth checking just to see how he rolls in that capacity.
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  #2814  
Old January 25th, 2013, 06:46 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Without dishonorable leadership, he's a 4-life Izumi Samurai with Phantom Walk. For 120 points, that doesn't really sound like a figure worth considering.
Even in a heroes only environment? It might be worth checking just to see how he rolls in that capacity.
I'm not saying he'd be horrible, but he's rather plainly outclassed by other figures in that price range. Laglor would beat him 1-on-1 pretty consistently, I think, and obviously 1-on-1 is not his forte.
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  #2815  
Old January 25th, 2013, 07:38 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements.
I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier (Although I suppose that was obvious)

And also I just like Valkrill
I have to add a fourth opinion that I think Daishi was better with Valkrill. I was very disappointed when that was the reason it was not passed. I think that how the figure plays and interacts with other official figures should be the determining factor over what was a theme issue with two judges.
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  #2816  
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:25 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiranx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements.
I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier (Although I suppose that was obvious)

And also I just like Valkrill
I have to add a fourth opinion that I think Daishi was better with Valkrill. I was very disappointed when that was the reason it was not passed. I think that how the figure plays and interacts with other official figures should be the determining factor over what was a theme issue with two judges.
It was not just two judges, many C3V members had similar problems with Daishi coming from Valkrill.

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  #2817  
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:29 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

capsocrates was also concerned that Daishi was too strong in endgame for a general figure of his price.

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  #2818  
Old January 29th, 2013, 09:27 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Kantono Daishi by qt.bangerang



Let me keep this short and sweet. There are only a couple of changes here, and they are both good. Dishonorable Leadership now has the "when revealing an Order Marker" language which prevents a Command Courier from triggering his bonding power. It also keeps things clean for any future bonding powers that would activate heroes. The other change is in his allegiance. He now fights for Vydar which is fine with me. I am not one who is totally opposed to a humans fighting for Valkrill, but a disciplined ninja master seemed a little off (maybe if he were ruthless or merciless but that's neither here nor there). I did run a couple tests with him as a blocker in a heroes only format. As dok predicted he did not do a lot. Without his ninja crew he is just annoying to chase down. Definitely not a role that I would solely select him for.

All in all this is very good revision and I vote YEA to inducting Kantono Daishi into the Soldiers of Valhalla.

Last edited by Super Bogue; January 29th, 2013 at 09:31 AM. Reason: The OP is up to date now.
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  #2819  
Old January 29th, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Threforian Raptor by Fi Skirata

Balance
The Threforian Raptors are a common hero so we can make some comparisons there and to the other Calvary type units (which Scytale has already done) that already exist.

These guys are kind of a pseudobonders so comparing to the Wyrmlings is natural. However, even though the Wyrmlings move a little slower, they have flying and a ranged special making them a better choice than the Raptors. And the Wyrmlings have actually bonding making them still the better choice to take in multiples and as filler.

Next, is the only other double space common figure, the Dumutef Guard. The Dumutef Guard is 10 points cheaper and has 1 more attack and defense, making them a more attractive choice then the fast more frail Raptors. The Dumutef Guard and Raptors both bond with the Death Knights, but I feel the Raptors still fall short here because they cost more and die faster.

For a more detailed comparison see Scytale’s review, he did a great job.

Theme
The idea of creating more dinosaurs for Heroscape is a great, and I can see them fitting nicely into the ranks of Aquilla because they have no riders.

I like that it is a common hero rather than a same sculpt squad, and the powers are fitting but the effectiveness is the problem.

Playability
The Raptors two abilities, Call for Help and Pack Assault, tell you that you need to have multiples for these powers to be effective. But with a hoard or just a few, they are not effective because they simply are not worth putting order markers on them.

These guys are hard to play and they trick you into thinking you should play them with Vipers because Mitten’s boost to their move as scouts, making them even faster. But the problem is that you still have to spend order markers on them and hope they survive attacks to activate Call for Help. Because of their low survivability this triggering is unlikely most of the time, and thus makes Pack Assault even harder to use.

Next trying to play them with Khosumet is also not affective because once again you have to spend order markers on Khosumet and the Raptors making it even harder to position them to gain the extra attack boost. Once again making them ineffective and not worth using.

The final chance for the raptors are the Death Knights because they can actually bond with them. But once again they fall a bit short because you are better off taking the cheaper sturdier Dumutef Guards.

Summary
Unfortunately the Threforian Raptors are just too ineffective with only single activations. Their abilities are dependent on them surviving, which they simple aren’t good at doing. Again their abilities require multiple copies to be used and because their abilities aren't able to be used they become just a quick-strike unit with low survivability and low chance of actually do significant damage.

I vote NO to induct theThreforian Raptor into the SoV.
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  #2820  
Old January 29th, 2013, 03:13 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Kantono Daishi by qt.bangerang

I am very happy to see the changes made to the unit formerly known as Dashi Tokainto. The three issues I brought up in my review of the previous version have been addressed: the not-so-Japanese-sounding name, the choice of general, and the wording change to prevent potential bonding chains. I love the new name (especially what it sort-of means), and the fact that he has both a family and given name unlike the Ninjas is explained well in the bio. Vydar was my personal first choice of general; I've always felt that ninjas fit bet with Vydar's tricky and mercenary natures. The one-Ninja-Hero-for-each-general thing does not mean anything to me since Kantono-dono isn't even a Ninja.

Changing the general to Vydar did open up a minor synergy with the Command Courier. Not an abusable one due to the "after revealing an order marker" language, but one that has possible potential use as a defender, particularly in the double-subset heroes-only one-general-only games. I did a bit of testing with that in mind and my findings are what you would expect. Being able to slip a figure through enemy lines with Phantom Walk and tie up range figures with a Counterstriker can be worth something. Worth, oh, 60 points maybe. At 120 points the Jonin just doesn't cut it. Heck, I'd rather take Otonashi to do the tie-up trick and use the remaining 110 points on something else.

Thus, I feel that Kantono Daishi is all of the good parts of Dashi Tokainto and none of the bad. As such I'm happy to say...

I vote to induct Kantono Daishi into the SoV.
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