Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > C3V and SoV Customs
C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #2749  
Old January 9th, 2013, 03:25 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: MN - Rochester
Posts: 7,691
Images: 453
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Kheris Fehn by DanieLoche et al

Lone medium-sized heroes have been a part of Heroscape since Sgt. Drake Alexander headlined the Rise of the Valkyrie Master Set. While such heroes without obvious synergies do not see as much tournament play as common squads or certain large/huge heroes, they do have a place.

Balance

Strictly by the numbers Kheris seems a touch weak. Five attack and 5 life/3 defense is certainly respectible, but Crixus does that for less points. Kheris is also competing in the key 120 point slot, filled by numerous high-powered figures like Krug, the Fen Hydra, and Kaemon Awa. For a single-attacking melee figure without strong synergies, it's up to the powers to make up the difference.

And that they do, at least when utilized well. Slayer Jump increases the Slayer's threat range considerably, and also puts him right where he wants to be. That definitely makes up for his moderate speed. His defensive powers are also offensive in the same way Counter Strike is. Actually, Deflection is nastier than Counter Strike. Counter Strike requires rolling more shields than the attacker's skulls, which doesn't happen often unless the number of defense dice is significantly larger than the number of attack dice. Deflection simply requires Kheris to take no damage from an attack -- just think of how many times you've seen a 3-defense squad figure survive one or more attacks. It's more complicated than all that, and I'll get to it later, but suffice it to say that Deflection is exceedingly potent, especially with Nhah Scirh Shield.

Theme

The Nhah Scirh cult, unseen in Heroscape or Fanscape (yet), is something people have been clamoring for since their appearance in the official bios. A brutal hero of that group that slays dragons (and anything else he chooses to) fits well for the cult and for Valkrill. The sculpt does not scream to me "leaper" or "deflector," but that doesn't make it a bad fit. Really, the sculpt could lend itself to countless interpretations, of which this one is fine.

Creativity

I like reuse of existing powers, or as in this case, reuse with tweaks. Slayer Jump is a fairly simple change to Pounce, and Deflection and Nhah Scirh Shield are not too far removed from Counter Strike and Stealth Armor, respectively.

The biggest issue I have with the figure is the level of complexity in the powers. While the powers are twists on existing powers, each tweak adds additional complexity. Each power has lot of little details about where and when and against what it can be used, all different. Not all of the details are necessary. Nhah Scirh Shield, for example, goes a long ways to give Kheris Fehn a bonus against nearly anything any dragon can do to him. It's a lot of detail for a little flavor. The interaction between Nhah Scirh Shield and Deflection also feels inelegant to me, making it feel like a custom instead of an official unit.

I realize I can only complain about this just so much, as there are official Heroscape units with plenty of complexity. Jotun, Nakitas, and Eltahale come to mind. Though I feel that Kheris goes a step beyond them with the amount of details and conditions.

Playability

Despite the name of the game, Heroscape, heroes have had it rough since the advent of the common squad. In general, there are three ways that heroes bring value to an army in a standard format game: 1) synergies, such as bonding and boosts (Marcus, Raelin); 2) anti-squad capabilities (Q9, Braxas); 3) hero-killing power (Drake, Iron Golem). While he's not as good of a can opener as some, Kheris Fehn definitely belongs in the third category, and may be the best assassin the game has yet seen.

But before I get into that, Kheris does have some potential as a defender, at least on paper. Three defense isn't anything special, even with 5 life, but Deflection is really something. Everything is better wrapped in bacon, but in Kheris' case it's a match made in heaven. Five defense is enough to defend against a lot of average-level attacks (3 attack dice), which can spell doom for squads that try to take him on in that state. True, weaker attacks are less likely to bounce back, but they do so often enough. Even if you do roll a 3 or more skull hit and get past his defense, there's a 20% chance it will be deflected back at you due to Nhah Scrih Shield. Death to a squaddie, and crushing to a heavy-hitting hero.

There's one catch to using Kheris as a shield, however: a smart (or frightened) opponent simply ignores him. One single-based figure has a hard time being a wall, and even if he is in the way it's worth disengaging to go after easier targets (especially the cheerleader giving Kheris the defense boost). Sure, his attack of 5 will sting if you leave him alone, but at least he is only able to kill one thing per turn. If you can get Kheris Fhen into the one key bottleneck with Raelin behind him, yeah, he can be nasty just sitting there, but ideal situations like that rarely happen.

Of course giving him Thorgrim's Spirit works for this too, but that works well on Kheris no matter what role you have him in.

Kheris Fehn's real value comes more from Slayer Jump than his defensive powers, though they play a role here too. Kheris is an incredible assassin, very difficult to stop and very good and bringing down his target. You can try to tie him down with screening units like Rats, but a smart Kheris player will take the leaving engagement attacks and focus on taking down a key target such as Raelin or Nilfheim. Slayer Jump is key for this, as it allows him to jump over obstacles such as hills, water, and enemy figures to get where he needs to be. Once in place, the combination of Deflection and Nhah Scrih Shield help keep him alive long enough to bring down his mark; the Shield gives him some survivabilty and heavy-hitters are afraid to go after him with their powerful normal attacks due to the possibility of a Sheild + Deflection. A well-played suicidal Kheris is a frightening thing for an opponent; if Kheris wants a particular figure dead it probably will be. A real terror to the heroes in dungeon crawls.

Summary

Kheris Fehn is fun and worth drafting into an army. But is he worth the detail and complexity? That's a matter of personal taste, one I find myself on the fence about. Honestly he feels a bit more like a custom than an official unit. But when playing the Slayer I didn't find myself bogged down with details; the concepts are simple enough that he plays smoothly. And I certainly don't mind adding a unit to the game that is very good at hunting down Raelin (even if he is more expensive).

I vote to induct Kheris Fehn into the SoV.
Reply With Quote
  #2750  
Old January 9th, 2013, 11:13 PM
greygnarl's Avatar
greygnarl greygnarl is offline
No good deed goes unpunished
 
Join Date: November 24, 2012
Location: USA - IL - Des Plaines
Posts: 3,503
greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanieLoche View Post
=> Does SoV agree with the use of blank faces in the attack/defense dices for a special power?
I'm personally against it. Maybe it's just because I'm an old-school red and blue dice user. But the reds and blues are officially legal and part of Heroscape, and it's possible (though admittedly unlikely) that players only have those dice.
My reading of old posts in long threads has finally turned up somehting good! I didn't even know that there were red and blue dice.

Tournament Armies Played - C3VRP - Customs - Trades

I'm Krug in the Paradox Keep and Augamo on the Sacred Tundra.
Reply With Quote
  #2751  
Old January 10th, 2013, 02:20 PM
Lyrgard's Avatar
Lyrgard Lyrgard is offline
 
Join Date: October 1, 2009
Location: France - Bordeaux
Posts: 1,056
Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Lyrgard is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

yeah for Kheris ^_^

Your comment and vote brought joice and congratulation in the french forum, Scytale.

Some thought on using Kheris :
- Theracus + Kheris for a melee bomb rigth in the opponent start zone.
- Using his move + Slayer jump on a double hex figure, Kheris can actually move 11 hex on a turn (10 if he kills his target)
- If needed, you can slayer jump on one of your one figure to propulse Kheris through the battlefield faster.
- Kheris could also be a good clean-up figure. If the opponents figure are scattered over the battle field, Kheris can jump from one to another, outranging most ranged figures.
- Kheris' slayer jump bypass engagement strike if he manages to kill the target.
Reply With Quote
  #2752  
Old January 10th, 2013, 02:30 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: MN - Rochester
Posts: 7,691
Images: 453
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrgard View Post
- If needed, you can slayer jump on one of your one figure to propulse Kheris through the battlefield faster.
This one I'm not all that happy about, honestly. It feels more like an abuse than a feature. I would have preferred it only works on opponent's figures, but that would add yet another condition into the mix. Beyond that, it's a painful strategy to use; 4 attack is enough to likely kill or at least wound whatever you're using as a stepping stone.

More troublesome, the special attack currently (I think) works against destructible objects. Not bad in and of itself, but effectively allows Kheris to teleport through fortress doors. If the unit passes the judging process, it's something I would like to see addressed in post-review Editing.
Reply With Quote
  #2753  
Old January 10th, 2013, 05:27 PM
quozl's Avatar
quozl quozl is offline
Silly Promo Pro, Dinosaurs are for Orcs
 
Join Date: January 11, 2008
Location: USA - WA - Vancouver
Posts: 21,911
Images: 121
Blog Entries: 3
quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I thought post-review editing only changes wording, not powers.

C3V is bringing back classic 'scape! / C3G is creating SUPER stuff for Heroscape!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
Reply With Quote
  #2754  
Old January 10th, 2013, 05:32 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: MN - Rochester
Posts: 7,691
Images: 453
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I thought post-review editing only changes wording, not powers.
We do a little changing in Editing, only with the creator's supervision and approval of course. We changed the Beakface Sneaks so that they can't Flock by attacking your own units, for example. The teleport-through-door thing is something I suspect the original creators didn't intend. If that's the case, it's something Editing can address.
Reply With Quote
  #2755  
Old January 10th, 2013, 05:38 PM
quozl's Avatar
quozl quozl is offline
Silly Promo Pro, Dinosaurs are for Orcs
 
Join Date: January 11, 2008
Location: USA - WA - Vancouver
Posts: 21,911
Images: 121
Blog Entries: 3
quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'd think you'd find out what they meant before voting on a unit.

C3V is bringing back classic 'scape! / C3G is creating SUPER stuff for Heroscape!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
Reply With Quote
  #2756  
Old January 10th, 2013, 05:51 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: MN - Rochester
Posts: 7,691
Images: 453
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I'd think you'd find out what they meant before voting on a unit.
Well, to be honest that possibility didn't occur to me until earlier today. Heck, I'm not even sure Slayer Jump can be used on destructible objects (do they have bases? do they occupy spaces?). It's something the Editing team and perhaps Rules team would have to discuss.
Reply With Quote
  #2757  
Old January 10th, 2013, 05:53 PM
quozl's Avatar
quozl quozl is offline
Silly Promo Pro, Dinosaurs are for Orcs
 
Join Date: January 11, 2008
Location: USA - WA - Vancouver
Posts: 21,911
Images: 121
Blog Entries: 3
quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth quozl is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Fair enough. We all miss stuff.

You've done a great job here and in the C3V.

C3V is bringing back classic 'scape! / C3G is creating SUPER stuff for Heroscape!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
Reply With Quote
  #2758  
Old January 11th, 2013, 11:49 AM
DanieLoche's Avatar
DanieLoche DanieLoche is offline
Marcel Marceau
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Location: France - Toulouse
Posts: 1,101
DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun DanieLoche is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Indeed, we didn't wanted possible to Kheris to Slayer Jump the Fortress Door! Of course, we agree with an small edit to negate this possibility.


Bunch of useful resources (army cards,
blanks, online databases & more..!)
French Forum's admin.
Reply With Quote
  #2759  
Old January 11th, 2013, 12:36 PM
greygnarl's Avatar
greygnarl greygnarl is offline
No good deed goes unpunished
 
Join Date: November 24, 2012
Location: USA - IL - Des Plaines
Posts: 3,503
greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness greygnarl wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Would it be frowned upon/illegal to make changes to someone else's custom and submit it to SOV under their name?

Like ____ by _____ with some edits.

Tournament Armies Played - C3VRP - Customs - Trades

I'm Krug in the Paradox Keep and Augamo on the Sacred Tundra.
Reply With Quote
  #2760  
Old January 11th, 2013, 12:57 PM
capsocrates's Avatar
capsocrates capsocrates is offline
My six-year-old sister-in-law calls the shots
 
Join Date: October 6, 2010
Location: USA - CO - Denver area
Posts: 13,028
Images: 11
capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth
Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by greygnarl View Post
Would it be frowned upon/illegal to make changes to someone else's custom and submit it to SOV under their name?

Like ____ by _____ with some edits.
It depends on how you do it, but that should be fine. The main thing is to give the author credit and seek their permission. If you don't hear back from them then it should be okay as long as you give them credit. I think something similar happened with Good Pig / dok's Zombie Hulk.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

--

A Child of the Risen Lord
--
Oklahoma HS Events - Colorado HS Events
Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV
Maps Customs Trades
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > C3V and SoV Customs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:47 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.