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  #2545  
Old October 19th, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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  #2546  
Old October 19th, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

As many of you have pointed out Killometer has been absence long enough for him to lose his position as a judge here. He will always be welcome in the Soldiers of Valhalla as a judge, but for the time being we will be redistributing his playtesting assignments and move on without him.
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  #2547  
Old October 19th, 2012, 01:03 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

She's all yours, SB.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #2548  
Old October 19th, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Ragweb Spider by Son of Arathorn

If there's something I've always felt Heroscape needed more of, it's non-humanoid units. A small spider isn't exactly breaking new ground, but I'm always happy to see units like this. The Fyorlag Spiders already have some decent bonding options in the Wyverns and (not as decent) Sujoah, but they currently lack a cheap bonding option.

Balance

There are a few units that the Ragweb Spider can be compared with. The Dumutef Guard is a very good match stats-wise and is also able to bond. Even at 10pts less the Dumutef wasn't very useful until the Death Knights came along. The Ragweb's ability is perhaps more generally useful than the Dumutef's abilities, and being single-based helps it get around. The Drow Chainfighter is another unit with almost identical stats, though no bonding ability. The Chainfighter does have some pretty useful abilities, though, and is again 10pts less. Does that mean the Ragweb Spider is overpriced? Not necessarily. Bonding, of course, is huge, and especially so in this case. The Fyorlags by themselves lack a strong attack and good hero-killing ability, a role which the Ragweb serves well. Auto-wounds can be pretty sweet too, even if they require some effort.

Theme

Like a Fyorlag, but a different type of spider. Has a poison ability. Nothing wrong with the theme there. And like I mentioned earlier, I'm always happy to see non-humanoid units.

I do have one theme issue. The Rabweb Spider has a very solid 4 attack and 4 defense. This is pretty heafty for a small critter. Four defense can perhaps be explained by an especially tough body or being extra agile. Four attack is harder to justify. In Heroscape stats do not have specific meanings and are not assigned by any hard-and-fast rules, but the Attack stat in a general sense represents a unit's ability to harm an opponent. Four attack and above are usually reserved for more skilled fighters (Ninjas of the Northern Wind) or raw power (Horned Skull Brutes). One would not expect a Small Arachnid to have the strength or intelligence to warrant the high attack. Do the Ragwebs have adamantium fangs? Black belts in spider-fu? Perhaps they hit the gym every day. I find it troublesome, but I concede that the higher attack is at least somewhat necessary for the Rabweb to be effective.

Creativity

A spider that bonds with the Fyorlag Spiders is a no-brainer. So is a poison ability for a spider. Poisonous Bite may seem innovative, but if you think about it it's not all that different than other poison abilities like Sujoah's Poison Sting or the Deepwyrm Drow's Poison Weapons: after causing wounds there is a d20 roll to potentially cause more wounds. The Ragweb's version adds a delay mechanic at the cost of some marker fiddliness. While I'm not opposed to adding new markers into the game (we do not have the issue of added cost per packaging like the original creators did), I do think they should be added sparingly lest the game become a mess of markers. The question, then, whether or not is adding markers worth the delay mechanic it adds to the power.

Accessibility

A quick search for miniatures did not find many of these available. But I believe the Pathfinder miniature line is still in print, so that gets a pass from me.

Playability

Do the Fyorlag Spiders need a hero-killing bonding option? Not especially, they already have Sujoah and to a lesser extent the Wyverns. But Sujoah is expensive and often not worth the price investment, and Wyverns only really handles the anti-hero role well against specific opponents (such as Raelin or a bonding support hero). It's nice to have a cheap bonding anti-hero bonding option, as well as a cheap, tough front line figure. Estivara gives the Ragwebs a boost too, which is nice if you want to have her in your Fyorlag army.

A handful of Ragwebs work well in a Fyorlag Spider army. One might be enough, but one single-life Ragweb is somewhat likely to die before accomplishing anything substantial. I found having a few of them, two to four, work in nicely and can be reasonably expected to poison a hero or two. To get the most out of them you normally want to hunt down opposing heroes, but they do ok as a front-line brute or as a means of cracking higher-defense squaddies. Given their low cost it's easier to justify using them in this way than the more expensive Predators. Also, having the Ragwebs as bonding options frees up Sujoah and Wyverns to hold back and strike when the situation is optimal.

The Ragwebs also perform decently en masse in heroes-only games, due mostly to their solid stats for a cheap cost though the extra poison damage helps too. In those games their single attack isn't particularly limiting, and being Common helps deal with the order markers. But there are better options when going the mass-common-hero route: Dumutefs, Drow Chainfighters, Fire Elementals, etc. They can also be fun in a dungeon crawl as a first-strike unit sent out early hoping to get some poison counters on the adventurers, especially with a set of Fyorlags.

As cleanup/filler they do not perform all that well. Other common heroes tend to beat them out in these cases, unique fillers even more so. As filler it's hard to justify putting early or midgame order markers on a single melee attacking 1-life hero. Maybe as a gamble to poison a hero, but that tactic usually ends with disappointment. They don't have the toughness to justify the order markers to get them to choke points or glyphs either. In cleanup their poison ability rarely matters, as the game tends to end too quickly either way when a Ragweb is all you have left.

As a side note, there are potential timing issues between Poisonous Bite wounds and other end-of-turn affects. There aren't many of those, but they do exist. The Glyph of Wannok is an example. Can the figure standing on Wannok die before Wannok activates? Can a figure be killed by Wannok before taking Poisonous Bite damage? The answer is a d20 roll-off to see which power happens first.

Summary

While they don't do much outside of Fyorlag Spider armies, Ragweb Spiders serve that army well. Having a cheap bonding option for the Fyorlags is nice, as is having an anti-hero option that doesn't cost 185pts. The Ragwebs look nice and play well, so the question is whether or not they are worth what I see as a theme issue and having to use extra markers. Even though I don't like having 4 attack on such a small, unintelligent critter, I don't think they would work very well without it. They need to have the punch to be worth using them, even with bonding, and they need to be able to wound heroes before they go down. The poison markers, like I said, are really just a way to delay the extra wounds that poison abilities normally give. Is the delay worth it? Immediate extra wounds might be too potent for the Ragwebs, and using the poison marker makes a spider player try to get the poison counters on opposing heroes as early as possible. So it does have interesting gamplay effects.

I vote to induct the Ragweb Spider into the SoV.
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  #2549  
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:38 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Hello SoV,

We just saw that an incredible error occured despite all our chekings in Kheris Fehn army card!

He has just 5 attack dices, and no 6! I hope you haven't tested him intensively with this error... Sorry for the inconvenient.
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  #2550  
Old October 19th, 2012, 02:40 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I doubt any of us have started testing Kheris yet. Do you have an updated card?
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  #2551  
Old October 19th, 2012, 03:35 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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customs/maps/c3v/sov

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  #2552  
Old October 19th, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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  #2553  
Old October 19th, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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He lives!!!!!
Probably checking to make sure that I didn't wreck his project.

C3V Current Broadcast 4/29/2015
C3V Testimonial from " Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen"
MY MINIATURE COLLECTION -- NEW VALHALLA
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  #2554  
Old October 19th, 2012, 04:45 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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I doubt any of us have started testing Kheris yet. Do you have an updated card?
Juste the time to eat and here it is :

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  #2555  
Old October 19th, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Oh Caps amidst the judges, nice!
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  #2556  
Old October 19th, 2012, 06:28 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
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So I'll continue to update my list post to reflect units that are still in the process and their current yes/no votes from now on...
If you do please include who submitted the card, that was the one thing I had to go back and find each time. Thanks!
Here's the updated list... with names of submitters.

REVIEW:
Isadoran Explorers by Toogwick Tuk:
YES to review (Super Bogue)
YES to review (Scytale)
NO to review (Capsocrates)
NO to review (nyys)
NO to review (qt bangerang)

Grommel Bronzewielder by Son of Arathorn:
YES to review (Super Bogue)
YES to review (Scytale)
YES to review (qt bangerang)
YES to review (capsocrates)

INDUCTION:
Greenspawn Assassin by boromir96 and AwesomeUnleashed:
NO to induct (Scytale)

Theforian Raptor by Fi Skirata:
NO to induct (Scytale)

Dashi Tokainto by qt.bangerang:
YES to induct (Super Bogue)
YES to induct (1Mmirg)

Tentacles of the Kraken by qt.bangerang:
NO to induct (Scytale)

Ragweb Spider by Son of Arathorn:
YES to induct (Scytale)

Hoplitron by Dok:
YES to induct (Super Bogue)

Shaitahn by Son of Arathorn:
YES to induct (Scytale)

Wraith of Bleakwoode by qt. bangerang:
NO to induct (Scytale)

Customs here
Master Set IV/Assault in the Mournlands.
William099 is Greater Ice Elemental...
in THE GHOST SHIP

Last edited by William099; November 19th, 2012 at 07:30 PM. Reason: qt's Isadoran vote
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