Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Kinseth]

We already did mega

[Dad_Scaper]

Actually, I don't mind it, considering it's about a unit that's in our pipeline to be tested.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Actually, I don't mind it, considering it's about a unit that's in our pipeline to be tested.

[qt.bangerang]

Double

[1Mmirg]

Priscus by Filthy the Clown

I have wavered back and forth for quite a while on Priscus. I like the concept and a lot of things about this unit. I love the smart way the unit is balanced with OMs to make including Spartacus just not quite worth it most of the time. I like the idea of a unit who doesn't have the offensive output of many of the Gladiator Heroes, but makes up for it with the precision (is there a play on his name here?) of his special attack.

His special attack is a perfect choice, in my mind. I liked it a bit better as a Shield Pin SA, but the idea of this guy as a precision grappler works well enough and serves a great purpose for the Glads, who can use a little specialized help.

Simply, this guy fits in with the Glads extremely well and does nice things for them, without feeling forces, unbalanced, or out of place.

On the other hand, I greatly dislike his lowered Taste of Freedom area of affect (from 3 spaces to 1 space) and I don't like that if future ranged Glads come out, they would naturally want to pod (turtle) around Priscus. I wish the power had been limited to Gladiators making adjacent attacks and the aura had remained. The reality is that it's hard to set up an adjacency attack bonus with melee units and I liked that his aura gave him a distinct flavor from most melee cheerleaders.

I am glad that his point total dropped--that aura was a nice bonus--but I agree with those that think it didn't quite drop far enough. Of course, I'd rather a price a bit too high over one a bit too low, so I won't hold that against him too much.

I also have to admit that I'm not a huge fan of the new sculpt. Maybe mine is just a bad example, but he looks odd to me, squished in the face and a bit elven or something. He does blend in well enough and I know that many players like this sculpt quite a bit.

Overall, I feel that he falls a bit flatter than the old Priscus (I think the aura shrink is the biggest reason for this), but he does work well with the Gladiators and opens up the builds for the Capuans in nice ways.

I wish we had a perfect sculpt for him and I have some minor reservations or wish-it-could-have-been feelings, but overall I appreciate the solid work that went into designing Priscus. He is a strong addition to the canon.

I vote YES to accept Priscus into the Soldiers of Valhalla.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by 1Mmirg

I like the idea of a unit who doesn't have the offensive output of many of the Gladiator Heroes, but makes up for it with the precision (is there a play on his name here?) of his special attack.

Hmm. "Priscus" in Latin just means "old/venerable/ancient/early". And not an uncommon Roman name for men.

But wikipedia tells me that a particular Priscus was a renowned gladiator, so famous that a single combat between him and another gladiator, a man named Verus, formed one of the highlights of the opening games inaugurating the Colosseum under Titus. Good choice of name, Filthy!

(Though it's perhaps ironic that he has nothing to do with any slave rebellion. On the contrary.... if Titus chose him to open the Colosseum, he clearly had direct imperial sanction. Hardly the kind of man to give others a yearning for the taste of freedom. )

[1Mmirg]

Sorry, forgot my smiley. Wasn't serious about the name's link to precision.

Thanks for digging around, though, Typhon. I knew the name was common enough, didn't know there was a particular famous Priscus--that's cool, even if not our/this Priscus.

Anyhow, this is a fun figure. Solid and valuable, not exactly what I'd have done, but plenty useful and worthy. Thanks, Filthy, for submitting him!

[Tiranx]

Originally Posted by dok

I'd like to nominate my Gargoyle:



The figure is the "Earth Element Gargoyle" from the Blood War D&D Minis release. It's got decent availability online, but more crucially, you get three of them (unpainted) with the Castle Ravenloft game. Auggie has 37 of them listed right now between Ravenloft bitz and this custom. The paint job on this guy is obviously not a hard one.

Design/Flavor/Balance notes:

Spoiler Alert!

This is arguably the simplest design I've made, and it was pretty easy to dial in and balance to my liking. They drip with theme and don't break anything. They basically play a filler role in whatever army you use them in. The temptation to spam 6+ of these guys in an army is really not there, because the more OMs they take, the less time they have their auto-shield.

What I like about these guys is the way they make you really think about how many you want and when to use them. If you just save them for cleanup, then their signature power (stone form) becomes much less useful. So you want to get them in spots where they annoy your opponent quickly, but this, too, can be a problem, since their 4 move and single activations make them pretty slow to move out. (The Warden can help here, making these guys more handy in guard builds.)

The only time you would pick these guys over rats (if you really want to win) is in a heroes-only environment, on a very flyer-friendly map, or if you only have a couple startzone spaces left. But this doesn't worry me very much.

I don't think that the ending of Stone Form is necessary. Couldn't you just write, "...add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled when rolling defense dice." or ..."when rolling defense dice against an attack."

I can't think of any other time you would roll defense dice than when you are defending against an attack.

Also, I can't see where I would ever take a Gargoyle over an elemental, wyrmling, or even your Hoplitron. What situation would a Gargoyle be better than a wyrmling?

I love the theme and the figure is dripping with it, but don't see what this figure really adds. Would love to be shown differently though.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Tiranx

Spoiler Alert!

I don't think that the ending of Stone Form is necessary. Couldn't you just write, "...add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled when rolling defense dice." or ..."when rolling defense dice against an attack."

I can't think of any other time you would roll defense dice than when you are defending against an attack.

I can't either, but the most recent similar power (and, I think, the single most relevant power to this one) is Warforged Resolve, and it uses the "rolling defense dice against a normal or special attack" construction. Not sure why it does when, for example, Stealth Dodge does not, but there it is. I chose to follow that precedent.

At any rate, in the event that this card passes through judging successfully, the C3V editing department will take a look at it and decide whether to stick with that language (I suspect they will) or pare it down. Either way, the meaning is clear so the judges should have no trouble testing it.

Originally Posted by Tiranx

Also, I can't see where I would ever take a Gargoyle over an elemental, wyrmling, or even your Hoplitron. What situation would a Gargoyle be better than a wyrmling?

When it's being attacked!

I would never build an army around these guys the way one can build an army around elementals and wyrmlings. If you get a ton of these and try to use them as an attacking force, you're going to lose to almost anything. If, however, you plant a couple of these next to a choke point and let them peer (menacingly) at all who dare approach, they can have some value.

I do expect these guys would slot in at a relatively low power ranking by the standards of figures I design (probably a B-), but I want to play it safe with a primarily defensive figure. As long as you aren't asking them to take too many OMs they have value.

[Foudzing]

Someone can explain to me why C3V have the absolute priority over SoV?

C3V just picks every figurine which could fit with Heroscape.
"Oh look, a cool figure! Project! No matter if we already have 20 projects not finished yet!" In my opinion, it's not an attitude of professionnals...

You post a custom, 2 possibilities:
-the figure is not avalaible enough or don't fit with Heroscape
-the C3V already have a project on this figures

I think we can go faster if C3V and SoV advance together and not with C3V blocking SoV all the time.

Just sayin...

[1Mmirg]

The C3V does not have priority. If they have a unit advanced in production then that weighs in the choice, but if the SoV claims a figure then it gets it.

The difference is that no one knows when the SoV has trumped the C3V. There is no visual sign of that happening. The idea over there, that hadn't advanced sufficiently, is snuffed out, secretly, and dies in the Sanctum, invisible, unknown.

We are working really hard to keep the SoV and C3V lockstep, working together, and advancing together. Trying to do all we can to keep them from blocking each other.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Someone can explain to me why C3V have the absolute priority over SoV?

I don't think it does. If a figure were nominated for the SoV, I really doubt that we would start a design for it in C3V. There have been a couple times people have brought up a figure internally at C3V, and been told "that's already in the SoV queue, we shouldn't make a figure for it." I can also tick off a couple figures in the queue here (not just my own designs ) that I would want to develop in the C3V if they weren't in-process here.

The real problem in my opinion is that a C3V figure can take several months to get through the early development phase BEFORE it gets announced publicly. So when a figure gets nominated for the SoV while it's in this early C3V stage, the judges are forced to compare the two designs and basically decide which they want to go forward with. It's not ideal.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

C3V just picks every figurine which could fit with Heroscape.
"Oh look, a cool figure! Project! No matter if we already have 20 projects not finished yet!"

I count over 40, actually... but it's absurd to argue that this covers all available minis.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

You post a custom, 2 possibilities:
-the figure is not avalaible enough or don't fit with Heroscape
-the C3V already have a project on this figures

Again, this is really a silly statement.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

I think we can go faster if C3V and SoV advance together and not with C3V blocking SoV all the time.

Just sayin...

Both projects could benefit from processing figures. We've all discovered how difficult it is to test figures in a rigorous way.