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  #217  
Old November 20th, 2011, 12:15 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

I think the major thing to avoid is having one extremely synergistic army going against a mish mash army. If they're both mishmash armies, it evens out a bit.
But, if the unit has a bunch of clear synergies, we'd like to see them in action, but it only makes sense to do so against another army with lots of synergies, otherwise it's just going to be a steamroll and we won't learn very much.
So, in summary:

Mishmash vs. Mishmash = fine
Synergy vs. Synergy = excellent
Synergy vs. Mishmash = not ideal

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  #218  
Old November 20th, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Plenty of people play Mishmash armies though, and in a blind game where you don't know what your opponent is bringing, mishmash VS Synergy is very likely to happen. So I think some Mishmash VS Synergy is very acceptable and will offer results that can contribute to a final conclusion.
Too much of any one type of testing is probably not good for the scope of things.

I am not really pleased with any direction that will dictate too much how people playtest, because if playtesting stays optional and organic, it will better simulate natural games that are also optional and organic.
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  #219  
Old November 20th, 2011, 01:01 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Here is a nice thread to help find some armies at various point ranges. At some point perhaps we can get some 800 point armies in there as well. If nothing else, it can help get an idea of some armies that people use together or think will have some kind of use together. Heck, you can even take one of the 600 point armies and add a big Heavy Hitter that doesn't really fit, but can be a beast.
Those don't use new figures. I wanted to use new figures, because I was excited about their release. I've used vigilantes and insane figures so much in testing that I'm sick of them. Lanterns are kind of boring to me. Etc...

I didn't know it'd be such a big deal. I'm sorry. Next time I can use Fan Four and such since I do suck at army building.

But anyway, we still need one more test on The Hood, so...
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  #220  
Old November 20th, 2011, 02:04 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

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Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Those don't use new figures. I wanted to use new figures, because I was excited about their release. I've used vigilantes and insane figures so much in testing that I'm sick of them. Lanterns are kind of boring to me. Etc...

I didn't know it'd be such a big deal. I'm sorry. Next time I can use Fan Four and such since I do suck at army building.

But anyway, we still need one more test on The Hood, so...
I totally understand where you are coming from here. Everytime I go home, I try to get a few games in with the various units the Sanctum has completed since I left.

Since you yourself just said you suck at Army Building, why not bump that thread after a release and see what people think about synergetic army builds for the units of that release.

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  #221  
Old November 20th, 2011, 02:10 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Don't concern yourself about it anymore LP, just do your thing and have fun with it. This is only a custom project for a game and not really that important not to have fun with. I was out of line to make some comments I made and for that I apologize.

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  #222  
Old November 20th, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Just to be clear, it wasn't that I had a problem with your tests (which seemed fine), but more with your conclusion that The Hood was out-of-balance because his team won handily both times.

My point being that his team probably won handily both times because they (more than likely) had more tactical flexibility due to synergy. If anything, I'd say that the games came as close as they did (and really, the Hood didn't come out clean of either of them) that 180 actually looked somewhat solid.

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  #223  
Old November 20th, 2011, 04:19 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margloth View Post
My point being that his team probably won handily both times because they (more than likely) had more tactical flexibility due to synergy. If anything, I'd say that the games came as close as they did (and really, the Hood didn't come out clean of either of them) that 180 actually looked somewhat solid.
You can interpret stuff based on the info given. If a synergetic dominated a non-synergetic army, I don't think that should be real shocker too us.

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  #224  
Old November 20th, 2011, 04:22 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Yeah, but it's definitely easier to get a feel for cost from limited playtests when we're not dealing with a situation where army builds seem like they might account for the wins or losses instead of the unit we're testing.

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  #225  
Old November 20th, 2011, 04:24 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margloth View Post
Just to be clear, it wasn't that I had a problem with your tests (which seemed fine), but more with your conclusion that The Hood was out-of-balance because his team won handily both times.

My point being that his team probably won handily both times because they (more than likely) had more tactical flexibility due to synergy. If anything, I'd say that the games came as close as they did (and really, the Hood didn't come out clean of either of them) that 180 actually looked somewhat solid.
I said this a couple times. The Hood seems out of balance because he seemed better than Kingpin. I'd rather have put markers on The Hood or the Thugs to bond with The Hood, than to put them on Kingpin. I was comparing Hood to Kingpin, not to the other army.
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  #226  
Old November 20th, 2011, 05:19 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margloth View Post
Just to be clear, it wasn't that I had a problem with your tests (which seemed fine), but more with your conclusion that The Hood was out-of-balance because his team won handily both times.

My point being that his team probably won handily both times because they (more than likely) had more tactical flexibility due to synergy. If anything, I'd say that the games came as close as they did (and really, the Hood didn't come out clean of either of them) that 180 actually looked somewhat solid.
I said this a couple times. The Hood seems out of balance because he seemed better than Kingpin. I'd rather have put markers on The Hood or the Thugs to bond with The Hood, than to put them on Kingpin. I was comparing Hood to Kingpin, not to the other army.
Well, they're slightly different. True, Hood can have more offensive potential, but Kingpin is a bit more reliable. Also, Kingpin has more bonding options (including Assassins, other Criminal squads besides the thugs, etc).

As far as wanting to put more OMs on The Hood when they were in the same army, well, I don't really think that's a huge thematic fail. The Hood tends to fall a bit more into the 'Underboss' category when around some of the bigger criminal names in the Marvel universe, so I absolutely see Kingpin sitting back and saying, "Parker, go whittle down the enemy's numbers a bit before I get out there." Then if Hood happens to fall (or become possessed), Fisk is still there to clean up the mess. That sounds great to me, and a fine strategy. Honestly, I'm not sure why you would want to draft Hood and Kingpin in the same army until you reach 1,000 points anyway, since they kind of fill the same role. And that's fine. You can go for a more offensive approach that's a bit less reliable in Parker, or a slower, heavier, absolutely reliable hitter in Kingpin.

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  #227  
Old November 23rd, 2011, 05:20 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

Playtest complete for the Hood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlordofthewolves
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT The Hood.

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass.

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass.

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass.

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass.

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass.
_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 180.
- Give a brief overview. The Hood did awesome! He killed Swamp Thing and wounded several other figures severely. His specials didnít really do too much, but I could have used them better.
Map: Martian War Zone: The Heat.
Units: The Hood, Ventriloquist, Two-Face, Street Thugs x2, Killer Croc, and Black Mask (850) vs. Flash, Invisible Woman, Iceman, and Swamp Thing (850).
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 180 or maybe a little less.
- Give a brief overview. The hood did fine. His powers worked better this time. He one-shotted Batman which gave him his point value easily. He died rather quickly to Superman though.
Map: Martian War Zone: The Heat.
Units: The Hood, Ventriloquist, Kingpin, and Two-Face (620) vs. Superman I and Batman I (600).
Spoiler Alert!
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  #228  
Old November 23rd, 2011, 05:26 PM
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Re: The Book of The Hood ~~ Playtesting Phase!

From that test I'm liking 190-200. WotW thought 180 or maybe a little less would be fit for him, but I'm still thinking that he's worth more. In both games, especially the second one, he earned his points worth.

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