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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #145  
Old February 26th, 2011, 08:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

This passes on time (yesterday actually).
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  #146  
Old February 26th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

Cool. Should we just post this one publicly and ask for like three tests straight up and then have Heroes supplement as necessary? I think this guy needs a minimum of three tests ... or are we trying to keep him hush hush, in which case we should just pm select testers and ask them directly?

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  #147  
Old February 26th, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

He already put it out there.

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  #148  
Old February 26th, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

Yeah, I realized that after posting this. I made it clear on there that we need at least three playtests for this, though. It'd also be nice if at least one more hero could look at this guy.

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  #149  
Old February 26th, 2011, 11:59 AM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

I can take him out for a spin, but it will take a little time to complete.

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  #150  
Old February 26th, 2011, 12:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad View Post
He already put it out there.
But I've only PM'd it to Good Pig so far, so if we want to keep it to sanctum members, we still have that option. Just let me know, I'll hold off before I send it to anyone else.
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  #151  
Old February 26th, 2011, 03:18 PM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

Nah, I think it's out there now, so might as well let those who signed up test it. I think for this guy, it's really the more the merrier.

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  #152  
Old February 26th, 2011, 05:13 PM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

Okay, sending off to Lord Esenwein then...
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  #153  
Old February 27th, 2011, 11:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - VOTE for Playtesting

First playtest result:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEsenwienIV
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Beyonder

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass I was a bit concerned about this and how if you had a 2500 point game if you would actually want to use all your points on one figure. Just my opinion personally.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________



- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Anti-Monitor, Thor and Darkseid (2510) vs. Beyonder (2500)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. .
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Wolverine, Professor X, Sinestro Corps Soldiers x6, Beast, Toad, Deadpool, Magneto, Colossus, Blob, Cyclops and Iceman (2665) vs. Beyonder and Count Vertigo (2660)
Spoiler Alert!



All in all I had a really fun time playtesting Beyonder. One thing I would say is to change the rolls for Mere Pawns to:
  • If you roll 1-11, choose any Unique Hero you control.
  • If you roll 12-19, choose one Unique Hero within 10 clear sight spaces.
  • If you roll 20 or higher, choose up to three Unique Heroes within 10 clear sight spaces.
Also for Supreme Summoning can you summon people when you are engaged? Same for Mere Pawns? He's great against high life, high defense, high point heroes on Lava Maps so I think I'll go with:


Pass at 2500 with lower numbers for Mere Pawns but 2400 with your wording.
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  #154  
Old February 28th, 2011, 11:06 PM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - Playtesting

Second playtest:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Beyonder

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Not too familiar with the character. Just did a basic wiki search. I guess for an all powerful being nothing seemed out of place.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
FAIL. Supreme Summoning on to a lava space has to be broken even with the new rules. I didn't end up running a match on a lava map, but I can only imagine based on my pretty balanced matches on non-lava maps.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
FAIL. There are 2 things about this guy that I don't like.
1.Mere Pawns bullet point number one says take a turn with “any unique hero you control”. I'm already using a 2,500 point figure in my army, but now have to bring along someone else on my team to make sure I get full use of one of his main abilities? This doesn't make sense to me. A 2,500 point figure should be a stand alone army in itself. This guy will almost always have to be paired with Grundy and or Thanos to get the most use out of him or using Mere Pawns is a big risk.
2.This one is a minor issue. Supreme Summoning seems to be too reliant on terrain. Professor X can hide behind a tree and still use his Mind Link, but Beyonder needs clear sight to use his Summoning. Granted it has unlimited range, but it seemed odd to me.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
FAIL. Having 40 life means that it's going to take roughly 15+ rounds, easily twice the amount of time as a regular match, to complete a game against Beyonder. At first I thought it would be kind of fun to draft all of the X-Men and Brotherhood to take this guy on, but then realized it wasn't that fun because it takes too long to finish the game. The power level may be accurate here, but it doesn't make for a fun game.

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS. I think he is worth his points, but I wouldn't use him.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS. When you're using him you have to figure out what the best use of his summon and Mere Pawns is at any given point. This means you have to fully remember each Hero's card and what it does because of the potential to use it. I only got the 20+ roll to use any 3 heroes once in both games and it was at the very end so there were slim pickins'.
_____________________________________________________________



- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. This passes at 2,500
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units:
Team 1: Beyonder, Solomon Grundy 2,780 pts

Team 2: Angel, Scarlet Witch, Prof X, Strong Guy, Jean Grey, Deadpool, Blob, Wolverine, Colossus, Sabretooth, Magneto, Cyclops 2,770 pts

Team 1 wins in Round 15 Turn 3 with Beyonder having 5 life left, and Grundy with 2 life left. Team 2 won initiative almost the entire game, but still lost.


Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. This passes at 2,500
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units:
Team 1: Beyonder, Solomon Grundy 2,780 pts

Team 2: Green Lantern (Hal), Darkseid, Scarlet Witch, Martian Manhunter, Iron Man, Superman, Hulk, Invisible Woman, Captain America 2,760 pts

Team 2 wins in Round 15 Turn 2 with 3 life Superman, 2 life Scarlet Witch and full health Iron Man. Darkseid almost single handedly took down Beyonder. He gave him 25 wounds in 2 rounds with incredible attack rolls and poor defense rolls for Beyonder. Everything else went pretty average.


Spoiler Alert!
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  #155  
Old February 28th, 2011, 11:34 PM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - Playtesting

Well it sounds like the points are fine, so I won't bother addressing that.

Quote:
FAIL. Supreme Summoning on to a lava space has to be broken even with the new rules. I didn't end up running a match on a lava map, but I can only imagine based on my pretty balanced matches on non-lava maps.
I maintain that he can be counter drafted effectively on a lava map.

Quote:
- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
FAIL. There are 2 things about this guy that I don't like.
1.Mere Pawns bullet point number one says take a turn with “any unique hero you control”. I'm already using a 2,500 point figure in my army, but now have to bring along someone else on my team to make sure I get full use of one of his main abilities? This doesn't make sense to me. A 2,500 point figure should be a stand alone army in itself. This guy will almost always have to be paired with Grundy and or Thanos to get the most use out of him or using Mere Pawns is a big risk.
I really don't think the ability to move a figure he controls is a significant part of his cost, so I disagree here. I think he'd be worth 2500 points if that aspect were dropped all together.

Quote:
2.This one is a minor issue. Supreme Summoning seems to be too reliant on terrain. Professor X can hide behind a tree and still use his Mind Link, but Beyonder needs clear sight to use his Summoning. Granted it has unlimited range, but it seemed odd to me.
Obviously this was done for purposes of game balance ... And I don't mind the theme either, as Prof X is using his telepathy to avoid needing clear sight.

Quote:
- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
FAIL. Having 40 life means that it's going to take roughly 15+ rounds, easily twice the amount of time as a regular match, to complete a game against Beyonder. At first I thought it would be kind of fun to draft all of the X-Men and Brotherhood to take this guy on, but then realized it wasn't that fun because it takes too long to finish the game. The power level may be accurate here, but it doesn't make for a fun game.
Honestly, I think 2500 points is probably beyond where I find the game to be fun, but I do think it's thematically accurate for Beyonder and it's hard to imagine doing him too much cheaper.
We could, of course, but it'd require so major toning down of some of his powers, IMO, as well as a dropping of life.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #156  
Old March 1st, 2011, 12:01 AM
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Re: The Book of Beyonder - Playtesting

Talking with GoodPig on Skype and we agree a nice tweak might be to change the high roll on Mere Pawns from controlling three figures to controlling two figures, but make it hit on 18+.
And then change a roll fail so it doesn't cost him the turn:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodPig
1-11, take turn with Beyonder as normal, 12-17 take turn with any figure, 18+ take turn with any 2 figures

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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