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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #1  
Old May 11th, 2010, 01:11 PM
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The Book of Punisher

The Book of Punisher

C3G MARVEL WAVE 4
FIGHT AGAINST FEAR



Comic PDF


Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Ultimates Singles set.
Its model numbers and name are #052-054 / Punisher.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Prior to joining the Marines, Frank Castle (born Francis Castiglione) had studied to be a Catholic priest but realized that he could not forgive those doing evil. He quit his studies and joined the Marine Corps. After going through boot camp and infantry training, Frank went through various other elite training such as Marine Force Recon, Sniper School, Army Airborne training and Navy SEAL school. Afterward, he served in the Vietnam War and was decorated with numerous medals. After the war, Frank and his family witnessed a Mafia gangland murder while they were picnicking in Central Park. Frank was the only one to survive and even though he could identify the murderers, the police could do nothing against the mob. Frank decided take on the name of Punisher and took matters into his own hands and use his training to take vengeance on those who killed his family. He didn't stop there, as his obsession with eliminating evil doers continues to lead him on his crusade of vengeance.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • Q: Exactly how does Assault Rifle work with multiple opponent figures that are at standing on varying levels of height in relation to Punisher?
  • A: The first attack "locks in" a number of attack dice to roll, and every subsequent attack after that is based on the initial roll. Lets do an example: If Punisher (with 4 Attack) had height advantage on the first target, he would be able to use Assault Rifle for a maximum of 3 attacks (using 5,4,3 dice), regardless of who he attacked after the first attack.
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities
  • N/A
BenefitsWeaknesses_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • When attacking with Punisher's Assault Rifle, if you have the option of attacking several opponent's figures that are at variable levels in relation to Punisher, if possible it is best to use the first attack against a lower opponent's figure. That way he starts with an attack of 5 and then subsequent attacks are 4 and 3, as opposed to attacking same level or higher figure first and getting attacks of 4, 3 and then 2.
  • Strategy Tips by CharosInCharge
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

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Old May 11th, 2010, 02:54 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

NAME = PUNISHER
SECRET IDENTITY = FRANK CASTLE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = VIGILANTE
PERSONALITY = OBSESSIVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 7
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 180


ASSAULT RIFLE
When Punisher attacks with his normal attack, he may attack two additional times. Roll 1 less attack die for each subsequent attack.

AUTO SHOTGUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by this special attack. Punisher only needs a clear sight shot at the chosen figure. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Punisher cannot be affected by this special attack. When Punisher attacks with this special attack, he may attack one additional time.

ARMOR PIERCING ROCKET SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 4.
For each skull rolled when attacking with this special attack, the defending figure subtracts 1 from its defense. Punisher can only attack a non-adjacent figure with this special attack and can only use this special attack once per round.



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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.


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  #3  
Old May 11th, 2010, 04:58 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Looks good Hahma, I would offer these comments:

Taking Down The Mob seems a little too powerful for the way I read it. The way I read it is that if the opponent has Lex Luthor (100), Riddler (140), 2x squads of Street Thugs (150), & Two-Face (130) Punisher would get 12 attacks but would only get to use 4 of them unless he has height or some other attack modifier. But 4 attacks seems a bit too much. If you limit it to Unique Hero's that will cut down the turns a bit but still not completely. Flash with his superfast reflexes doesn't attack this many times.

Auto Shotgun Special Attack I would think based on the name of this power all affected figures would need to be in clear sight of Punisher. I don't see any thematic sense in shotgun bullets going around corners.

Armor Piercing Rocket Special Attack love the mechanics.

I only a have 1 overall concern & that is if his character should have 2 special attacks. Both are great & thematic I am just thinking from a HS level whether this character should justifiably have a multiple normal attack plus a multiple special attack plus a defense reducing special attack. Individually I would say each power is justified but altogether my gut says it's too much. This is the kind of set up I can see on War Machine, but don't feel should be all on Punisher.

Cheers
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Old May 11th, 2010, 05:15 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Maybe restrict Taking Down the Mob to attacks done on squad figures? That would represent his ability to shoot up a crowd ...
Or maybe restrict it so each attack has to be on a different figure. That way he can't shoot a single hero multiple times with the power.
Yeah ... I think I'm liking that second idea a lot.
I think if any character should feel like he's carrying around an entire arsenal, it should be Punisher. I'm liking two special attacks on him, especially since one is only once per round.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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Old May 11th, 2010, 06:02 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

First off, let me say that I like this Punisher more than any other I have ever seen done. That being said I think A3N and Bats are onto something. What if the shotgun was represented by his normal attack, TAKING DOWN THE MOB was specific to Squads after first attack or to non-same figure, and Sniper ability were changed to a Special Attack instead of Shotgun. Maybe he could have Range 8, Attack Special. Then he can roll a number of attack dice equal to the number of Life on your target's card. This would represent his head shot ability, but at the same time be harder to one shot kill Superman etc. because he would need to roll all skulls, but still the ability is there. Only allow its use once per round as well. That way he would need to have all three markers on his card to run out of Special Attacks. Just my

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Old May 11th, 2010, 06:27 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Looks tight. I love his immense arsenal. Given his life of 5 I'm tempted to say lower his defense to 4. I suppose an initial playtest will give a better feel for that, though.
I can see that, or keep the 5 defense and drop the life to 4. Thematically, I think he could fall in the 180-190 point range as he doesn't have lines that he doesn't cross, he's a killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
Looks good Hahma, I would offer these comments:

Taking Down The Mob seems a little too powerful for the way I read it. The way I read it is that if the opponent has Lex Luthor (100), Riddler (140), 2x squads of Street Thugs (150), & Two-Face (130) Punisher would get 12 attacks but would only get to use 4 of them unless he has height or some other attack modifier. But 4 attacks seems a bit too much. If you limit it to Unique Hero's that will cut down the turns a bit but still not completely. Flash with his superfast reflexes doesn't attack this many times.

Auto Shotgun Special Attack I would think based on the name of this power all affected figures would need to be in clear sight of Punisher. I don't see any thematic sense in shotgun bullets going around corners.

Armor Piercing Rocket Special Attack love the mechanics.

I only a have 1 overall concern & that is if his character should have 2 special attacks. Both are great & thematic I am just thinking from a HS level whether this character should justifiably have a multiple normal attack plus a multiple special attack plus a defense reducing special attack. Individually I would say each power is justified but altogether my gut says it's too much. This is the kind of set up I can see on War Machine, but don't feel should be all on Punisher.

Cheers
Thanks for the comments A3n

Major Q10 has two special attacks at 150 points. Punisher is well known to employ just about every available weapon possible. He uses sniper rifles, pistol, machine guns, rocket launchers, grenades, claymore mine, explosives, shotguns, auto-shotguns, assault rifles, sub-machine guns and knifes. Many of the comments in the Brainstorming thread for Punisher were either Guns, Guns, Guns and/or he could be one of the rare units that qualifies for 2 special attacks. So I heeded those comments and ran with them.

Regarding Taking Down The Mob - I can see perhaps having a limit of 4 attacks, so he doesn't get more too crazy with boosts. I don't know if you fully understood the power in that each subsequent attack gets 1 less attack dice. So if he gets 4 attacks, the first one is with an attack of 4, the next one would be attack of 3, then 2, then 1. It's kind of like a machine gun that becomes less accurate when the recoil kicks in and the bullets spray all over the place. I guess I was trying to do something other than double attack, something with a little more panache.

Regarding the Auto-Shotgun- It was taken from Johnny Shotgun Sullivan's card.

Ultimately, I made the Armored Piercing Rocket special attack limited to 1 time a round to keep it from being too powerful or over used. I reduced the range of the shotgun from the official 5 to 3 to force him to be up close and personal with it so that if he's going to risk using it, then he'd be in danger afterward. I wanted to give him something thematically special vs. Criminals and their bosses, since that's who he is obsessed with killing, but I didn't want him to be too niche and be undraftable when not going against criminals and their bosses. So that's why I gave him a limited powerful weapon to help him vs. tougher opponents and a multi-attack weapon to help him vs. commons. Realistically though, it's not hard to keep figures from being adjacent from each other, so if his opponent is smart, they'd keep their figures not adjacent to each other to keep shotgun damage to a dull roar.

Offensively, I believe that he should be one of the most versatile units around because that's what he is. His cost will be reflected in that offensive ability since he doesn't have any special defensive powers, synergies, flying, grappling or super power type abilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Maybe restrict Taking Down the Mob to attacks done on squad figures? That would represent his ability to shoot up a crowd ...
Or maybe restrict it so each attack has to be on a different figure. That way he can't shoot a single hero multiple times with the power.
Yeah ... I think I'm liking that second idea a lot.
I think if any character should feel like he's carrying around an entire arsenal, it should be Punisher. I'm liking two special attacks on him, especially since one is only once per round.
I can definitely see restricting the power to make him target separate figures, it would keep the power down, as well as be more thematic in bullets spraying all over the place.

I'll wait to hear more feedback before making changes. Though I forgot to add at the end of Auto-Shotgun that he's not affected by his own shotgun blast, so I'll add that now.

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Old May 11th, 2010, 06:48 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
First off, let me say that I like this Punisher more than any other I have ever seen done. That being said I think A3N and Bats are onto something. What if the shotgun was represented by his normal attack, TAKING DOWN THE MOB was specific to Squads after first attack or to non-same figure, and Sniper ability were changed to a Special Attack instead of Shotgun. Maybe he could have Range 8, Attack Special. Then he can roll a number of attack dice equal to the number of Life on your target's card. This would represent his head shot ability, but at the same time be harder to one shot kill Superman etc. because he would need to roll all skulls, but still the ability is there. Only allow its use once per round as well. That way he would need to have all three markers on his card to run out of Special Attacks. Just my
Thanks Spidey

Well if he shotgun was represented by his normal attack, then it wouldn't be a shotgun attack, it would be nothing more than a pistol or rifle attack because it would affect only one figure, whereas a shotgun is meant to affect figures adjacent to the targeted one as well.

The Sniper Special Attack is interesting, but he'd pretty much be relegated to staying to the rear for most of the game and wait until heroes had 1 or 2 lives left or just attack common squad figures. I likely wouldn't want to waste an OM on him to try to get 3 + skulls for a kill or nothing. Then if he weren't facing Criminals and their bosses at all in the opposing army, he'd be left with a 1 time/ round rocket attack and a single normal attack. He'd get chewed up in no time without any multiple attack options. Also, while the Auto-Shotgun sounds really deadly, it also affects your own figures. So he can't go all willy-nilly and blast an opponent's figure that is adjacent to yours, without having to roll defense for his own figure/s as well.

I'm totally for reducing Taking Down The Mob to a max of 4 attacks (4,3,2,1) and making it be against different figures. This would tone it down a bit and avoid him concentrating fire on one figure and also keep him from getting a crazy amount of attacks from boosts.

Edit: I changed Taking Down The Mob to only allow 4 attacks max and for him not to attack the same figure more than once.

Thanks again for the input. It certainly helps emphasize the need to if nothing else, tone down Taking Down the Mob some.

Ultimately, I think he could be 180-190 point unit. If we de-power him too much, he could easily fall to a 150 point unit and I don't know if that's what people want out of the C3G Punisher.

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Last edited by Hahma; May 11th, 2010 at 07:19 PM.
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  #8  
Old May 11th, 2010, 07:48 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Meh ... no offense Spidey, but I like the current card a lot more than your proposed changes (some of which I had a tough time following, so that might have been part of it).
I think he's really great as is and that one tweak I suggested to Taking Down the Mob to force him to target separate figures should get him right where he needs to be for my liking.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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Old May 11th, 2010, 07:54 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Are we really going to have a class called "Kingpin"? That seems odd to me...

Also, some suggested wording changes to Taking Down the Mob:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
TAKING DOWN THE MOBFor each Criminal, Crime Lord, or Mastermind or Kingpin in your opponents' army that remains in play, Punisher may attack one additional time with his normal attack, for up to a maximum of 4 attacks. When Taking Down The Mob, Punisher rolls 1 less attack die for each subsequent attack this turn. He cannot attack the same figure more than once when Taking Down The Mob.
On a side note, this power will change how we roll dice, because we always roll attack and defense dice at the same time. We can't do that with this power...
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Old May 11th, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

I think if a figure is destroyed, though, it's still in my army ... how about:

TAKING DOWN THE MOB
When Punisher attacks with his normal attack, he may attack with his normal attack one additional time for each enemy Criminal, Crime Lord, or Mastermind on the battlefield, up to a maximum of 4 attacks. When Taking Down The Mob, Punisher rolls 1 less attack die for each subsequent attack in the same turn. He cannot attack the same figure more than once when Taking Down The Mob.

And all signs point to the future Kingpin having a class of ... Kingpin.
But it wouldn't hurt my feelings if that class was left out of this power.

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Old May 11th, 2010, 08:21 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
And all signs point to the future Kingpin having a class of ... Kingpin.
But it wouldn't hurt my feelings if that class was left out of this power.
But who else would have that class? I don't really like the idea of a class custom-tailored to just one figure.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 08:38 PM
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Re: Punisher - Design Phase

Wow, way too much going on in the attack department for me. Maybe tone down the shotgun to 2 blasts per turn, but "Taking Down the Mob" really needs to be scaled back.

What about just "as long as an opponent controls at least 1 Crimelord, etc, Punisher may attack (normally) 1 additional time"? Or maybe "If Punisher destroys a Crimelord, etc. with his normal attack, he may attack (normally) again (and continue until he doesn't destroy one)"?

I love the skulls = less defense dice mechanic, esp. for "Armor Piercing Rocket." I actually DO like multiple SAs (occasionally) and will support them here esp. (he DOES have an arsenal) as long as they're toned down a little bit.

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