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Old March 25th, 2010, 01:01 AM
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Drafting Treasure Glyphs

[Summary options for premade armies]
  1. Any 100 pt or less figure can start the game with a Glyph for 20 pts extra.
  2. Bring a Glyph with your premade army @ 30 pts/Permanent, 20 pts/Temporary, excluding the Healing Glyph.
[Summaries for Drafting]
Chas's Rules for Drafting Glyphs
[Optional rules for both premade-army and drafted-army games]
  1. Only 1 glyph per army
  2. Only 1 glyph per hero
  3. Whenever a glyph would be dropped, it is instead destroyed
[/summaries]


I was thinking of different Hero/TreasureGlyph synergies, which lead me to think, "what if you could draft treasures as part of your army" and I tried to think of all the treasure glyphs and how one would go about costing them. I did a search and found this topic has come up briefly several times for regular glyphs but decided to start a separate one that concentrates just on the Treasure Glyphs. I think the TG will lend themselves more easily to drafting since they are more limited in scope (affecting only one figure at a time) than the regular glyphs.

Here's my thought process. The value for a TG will vary in relation to who they're paired with, so I've tried to figure out the most powerful combos and estimate how many points the affected figure improves by. I'm really looking forward to what the community may come up with; possibly some sleeper pairings. Here's the TG's for convenience and my best guesses at the strongest pairings.

Permanent Treasure Glyphs:

Heroic Rune: (+1 to normal attacks)
Spoiler Alert!
Zetacron + 40 30 40 pts.


Talisman of Defense: (+1 to defence)
Spoiler Alert!
Charos + 40 30 20 40 pts.


Holy Symbol of Pelor (Attack +2 vs. Undead)
Spoiler Alert!
Syvaris + 40 30 20 pts.


Brooch of Shielding (adds disengage)
Spoiler Alert!
Fen Hydra +20 pts 40 pts.


Giant Hunter Stone (+1 Att & Def vs. Large and Huge)
Spoiler Alert!
Sir Denerek Fen Hydra +20 30 pts.


Oceanstride Amulet (Gaines Slither)
Spoiler Alert!
Frost Giant of Mohr +20 pts.


Temporary Treasure Glyphs: (1 time use)

Potion of Healing: (Remove up to 3 wounds on your turn)
Spoiler Alert!
Q9 + 130 80? pts.


Bolt of Witherwood (AA):(Insta-kill within 5 spaces on a roll of 16+)
Spoiler Alert!
Cyprien +40 pts.


Elixir of Speed (Move +4)
Spoiler Alert!
Tor-Kul-Na + 30 20 pts.


Ring of Protection (Defense +3)
Spoiler Alert!
Krug +20 30 pts.


Whetstone of Venom (+2 wounds when normal attack scores a hit. Declare before attack.)
Spoiler Alert!
Brandis Skyhunter + 30 20 pts.


Bracers of Teleportation: (Blink 10 same level spaces instead of moving. Ignore engagement swipes)
Spoiler Alert!
Fen Hydra +20 30 pts.


Cloak of Invisibility (No hit zones and ignore passing swipes this round until you attack)
Spoiler Alert!
Braxas + 120 40? 50? pts.


Belt of Giant Strength (+2 dice vs. adjascents this turn)
Spoiler Alert!
Cyprien +20 pts.


Revnant's Tome (AA): (bring back a destroyed figure for 1 normal attack)
Spoiler Alert!
Kaimon Awa +20 pts.


Scarab of Invulnerability: (15- ignore 1 wound. 16+ ignore all wounds)
Spoiler Alert!
Deathwalker 9000 +50? pts.


Some prices I started arbitrarily based on feel, and others I reasoned out a price in my head. For example if the Potion of Healing can heal 3 lives and the Fen Hydra Q9 costs 180 and has 4 lives, then arguably the Potion of Healing aught to cost ~ 135 pts; 3/4 of 180. Since then the community has made/still makes good cases for higher or lower shifts which I try to update as people argue their point of view.

I'd LOVE to see a tourney where glyphs could be brought. Even if it was a "bring a free treasure glyph" rule. Almost everyone would bring a hero, and figuring out what to prepare for would be very fun and challenging.

Edit: For the TG costs above, I've assumed a blind draft and 400-600 pt games
Edit: Limiting to 1 glyph per army or figure seems like a good idea too.
Edit: It was suggested that (generally) +30 for Permanents and +20 for Temporaries is more reasonable, and I've been convinced and then unconvinced since.
Edit: In fact even +20 is reasonable for most Permanents in most cases. Two tourney variations that seem promising are:

1. Any 100 pt or less figure can start the game with a Glyph for 20 pts extra.
2. Bring a Glyph with your premade army for 20 pts, excluding the Healing Glyph.

Last edited by Strack9; December 28th, 2010 at 02:27 AM. Reason: added optional rules/general housecleaning
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  #2  
Old March 25th, 2010, 01:12 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

You've got some VERY nice stuff here. I think that what you've brought here is more likely to be utilized in actual gameplay (as opposed to drafting field glyphs) because, like you said, each Treasure Glyph only affects one character (similar to drafting an EXTREMELY weak hero)--whereas field glyphs like Gerda affect the entire army (similar more to the effects of Kato Katsuro). The points you have here seem pretty balanced, too.

One question, though--
with each deduction of point values for each of the TGs, you say (Hero's name) +### pts. Does this mean you have to draft a glyph with another character, or would you draft the glyph on your drafting turn *instead* of a figure, and then get to add it to any Hero when you place figures on the starting zones?

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Old March 25th, 2010, 01:26 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

Tor-Kul-Na with the move glyph would be far more fearsome. He could sqash your whole army on one turn.


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  #4  
Old March 25th, 2010, 02:13 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Tor-Kul-Na with the move glyph would be far more fearsome. He could sqash your whole army on one turn.
Nice one. I'll change that. (of course if you fail any of the stomps in your first 6 move, the move glyph would be totaly wasted since you have to declare before moving) . . . what are the odds of rolling 8-20 ten times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lxnrhinners View Post
One question, though--
with each deduction of point values for each of the TGs, you say (Hero's name) +### pts. Does this mean you have to draft a glyph with another character, or would you draft the glyph on your drafting turn *instead* of a figure, and then get to add it to any Hero when you place figures on the starting zones?
The intent is that you would be able to draft the glyph instead of an army card and then use it for whomever you choose. The reason I put (Hero's name) +## pts. is because I think the price of the glyps should be based on the best "combo" so to speak. The units listed in my first post represent my guess at the best "combo" and consequently the price I think the glyph should be drafted at.

Last edited by Strack9; March 25th, 2010 at 02:49 PM.
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  #5  
Old March 25th, 2010, 02:56 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

I think you are over pricing them. The permenent ones can be lost once the figure carrying it dies, becoming a boost for your opponent and a negative for you. The temp ones only have a one time use, and you are not even gaurenteed a chance to use it. For example, it is quite possible to die before you can use the healing potion, then your opponent might pick it up and use it instead. There is no way I would ever spend 90 points on a healing potion, when I can just draft another figure with more then 3 life.

I do like the idea of being able to draft a TG as part of your army though. I would suggest just having a flat price for all permanent TGs (30 pts?) and then a lower flat rate for all temp TGs (20 pts?), regaurdless of type. Restrict it to only 1 glyph per army to keep it from being abused.
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  #6  
Old March 25th, 2010, 06:43 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I think you are over pricing them. The permenent ones can be lost once the figure carrying it dies, becoming a boost for your opponent and a negative for you. The temp ones only have a one time use, and you are not even gaurenteed a chance to use it. For example, it is quite possible to die before you can use the healing potion, then your opponent might pick it up and use it instead.
I see what you're saying. As a counterpoint I'd say that since you start with them you would be the more likely of the 2 players to get to use the glyph, and even if you lost the glyph (barring an opposing figure with post attack movement) you would still have the first opportunity to recover the glyph. That being said, I'm rather swayed by your point and conceed the probability that 30/20 pts per permanent/temporary glyph is nearer the mark. . . . with one exception . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
There is no way I would ever spend 90 points on a healing potion, when I can just draft another figure with more then 3 life.
I'll conceed this point also . . . in the case of the Fen Hydra. But what about, say, Q9? You only get to draft one of him, and he has the potential to heal 135 points worth of life. Even if he heals after the first or second wound received he gains 45 or 70 pts worth of life. I would definitely pay 70 or 80 pts for the heal glyph in that situation, and 30 pts. would be highway robbery.

In this case it seems a shame to price the heal glyph against it's best "combo" because Q9 is definitely at the extreme end of the price/life spectrum. I do, however, think the value of the heal glyph will end up higher than the other temporary glyphs since there are many figures with a price/life ratio of higher than 30 pts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I do like the idea of being able to draft a TG as part of your army though. I would suggest just having a flat price for all permanent TGs (30 pts?) and then a lower flat rate for all temp TGs (20 pts?), regardless of type. Restrict it to only 1 glyph per army to keep it from being abused.
I'm definitely going to do this for all home games in the intermediate future, and will try to post any issues that come up (although the number of home games have been few recently). I don't forsee any except for an undercosted heal glyph. I'm gon'na start that one off at 50 pts.

Last edited by Strack9; May 3rd, 2010 at 01:50 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 10:09 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

Yeah, I guess I can see how the healing one can be pretty significant on a high defense/ high life hero. Maybe just leave that unavilable for drafting.

It would be really cool if they came out with a cheap thief D&D figure that could 'pick pocket' and adjecent hero and take any treasure glyphs they have on their card away from them on a D20 roll. Then the healing potion would suddenly not be so scary since you could take it away from Q9 before he had a chance to use it.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 04:14 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

This is a cool Idea but it really only seems useful for dungeon campaigns for a boost to your party of heroes. In a normal game it seems like things could be to easily broken Who wants to fight Q9 with a health potion, talisman of defense, ring of protection, and an elixer of speed tacked onto him.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 07:17 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

One way to fight that would be to limit it to one glyph per person, but as long as the glyphs are priced right it shouldn't make a difference. I mean if you price the heal glyph at 130 (for the worst case; Q9 scenario) that's practicaly the same as banning it, but it puts the choice back in the player's hands.

Another (unappealing) idea: Make it so the Potion of Healing is only draftable at the end at 3x(points/life) of the highest ratioed figure already drafted by the chooser. Way too much math for a friendly game IMO.

BTW, after Q9, which figure has the next highest points/life ratio? My first thought is the Fen Hydra at 30pts/life.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 08:28 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strack9 View Post
One way to fight that would be to limit it to one glyph per person, but as long as the glyphs are priced right it shouldn't make a difference. I mean if you price the heal glyph at 130 (for the worst case; Q9 scenario) that's practicaly the same as banning it, but it puts the choice back in the player's hands.

Another (unappealing) idea: Make it so the Potion of Healing is only draftable at the end at 3x(points/life) of the highest ratioed figure already drafted by the chooser. Way too much math for a friendly game IMO.

BTW, after Q9, which figure has the next highest points/life ratio? My first thought is the Fen Hydra at 30pts/life.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 06:09 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

We've been playing recently that every player draws one random equipment glyph from a pool. It kind of mixes things up but rarely breaks the game. I still haven't figured out what to do with the Holy Symbol though, since if the other players don't have undead it's worthless.

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Old April 8th, 2010, 09:08 PM
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Re: Drafting Treasure Glyphs

For 490, I would take a 15 defense Q9. I think the number of treasure glyphs you can draft should be limited to 1 or 2, maybe 1 per hero.
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