January 27th, 2019, 01:44 PM
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"our design team knows what it's doing"
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Join Date: November 22, 2006
Location: KY - Louisville
Posts: 21,431
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Scytale
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Originally Posted by NecroBlade
One. ONEOrder Marker on Clayton has value due to Posse. It's a once per round power and I don't know how to stress that any more. You may also want a Shotgun to go first during a Shootout to see if you can clear multiple figures, thus freeing up someone else's single shot at a less-important enemy, or double-tap something that survives.
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Being once per round does not convince me. That makes sense in the initial round when moving them into position, but in later rounds I want to be able to move the posse to a new position as the game state changes. Unless I explicitly plan to do that in the first round, I'll just keep my order markers on Clayton.
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And you're free to do that with the current version. There's nothing stopping it from being played with Clayton as an OM dump. But the ability to be flexible during Shootouts and the necessity of properly timing your Posse moves are both positives.
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Originally Posted by NecroBlade
Likewise, also pointed out a few posts ago, there is a single word difference between moving them "before" and "after", yet one of them makes more thematic sense for a leader. Scy has also already waved away the necessity of trying to word our way around "before" and "instead" powers being on the same card, noting that they in fact can't work together so it's ok (yet inexplicably later expressed concern that another Lawman with a "before" power would somehow conflict with Clayton's "instead"  ).
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Wait, what? No, I didn't wave anything away, rather the opposite. I think that "before" and "instead of" power probably do work together, so I agree with the current wording. It's a nice way to avoid that problem.
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Clearly I need you to explain these seemingly contradictory statements to me, then:
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Originally Posted by Scytale
Ah, I see. A "before taking a turn" power would not conflict with an "instead of taking a turn" power.
-snip-
Making a power that changes how other cards work is messy at best, and potentially problematic, especially if we start giving Lawmen "before taking a turn" powers.
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In the same post you stated that "before" and "instead" don't conflict so we're currently fine as-is, but then you say future "before" powers on other Lawmen would be problematic. Which is it?
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Originally Posted by NecroBlade
To be quite blunt, I don't think anyone knows exactly what they want. All I can tell you is what we have here (give or take tweaks to auras and attacking during Posse) works as intended and does so in a fresh, thematic way. I plan on doing more testing around those changes, but expect to find Clayton continues to make the Lawmen a new, fun faction to play.
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I will agree with "thematic," and potentially "fun." I do not agree with "fresh." It's another leader power that offers additional turns with other units. The order marker spread as implemented here is a wrinkle, not a real difference. Though a potentially interesting wrinkle, one that has the potential to force interesting decisions, but with the current version I see only minimal value, not enough to justify the boundary-pushing and potential rules headaches.
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Again, "fresh" is a matter of degree. Leaders are going to create some kind of synergy within their faction, and it is often going to be similar to that which already exists in others. This is similar but different, which may be fresh to us but not to some. So far there's barely any boundary-pushing (which new designs need to do from time-to-time; there are over 300 existing cards) and haven't been any rules headaches. Pair that with the thematic nature of this addition and it should be a win for Heroscape.
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