[Ranior]

Originally Posted by Rich10

So, I guess that you think that either Clinton or Trump are not "good people". I wrote this a while back, and I'll write it again, that we should try not to demonize people that we don't agree with or canonize people that we agree with. I tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, so I'm not a big fan of Bernie Sanders (on the fiscal side of things). Still, I have no problem acknowledging that Bernie believes that a more socialist government would be a good thing. This means that we have a difference of opinion, not that one of us isn't a good person.

In this election, I'm not thrilled with either candidate, but I think that they both want what's best for the US. Perhaps that makes me naïve, but that's how I feel.

I pretty much wholly agree with you. I specifically think that Trump is not a good person though. I will get to that in a bit.

In general, I think the vast majority of politicians truly are trying their best to do good for their country and uphold acceptable ethics under increasing demands from their party to fund-raise, fund raise, fund raise. I think there is a big problem in this country with both sides needlessly demonizing the other. We can work together, and most politicians are good people we can work with. Democrats and Republicans don't need to be at each others throats and act like the other are a bunch of degenerates that we can't work with. That's an awful line of thought and just adds to the hyper partisanship that is being witnessed. It is a real issue that needs to be overcome. I'm pretty young, and so only really have paid attention to election in 08 and 12, and in both of those I personally have respect for John MicCain (quite a lot actually) and Mitt Romney (moderately so). I think they are both nice guys who work very hard for their country. I think McCain does an excellent job overall to be honest and would not have been that sad to see him win. (Palin on the other hand....well yeah). Romney is a politician who I actually think was pretty good too but felt excessive need to bend to some of the tea party sentiment and took more hard line stances on many things than he truly would have while governing. Either way they both were fine candidates and good people. I disagree with many of Paul Ryan's policies, but I generally respect him and think he is fairly rationale and is trying to do a good job and is a good person. There's probably a bit of me that likes him a bit just because he's a fellow wisconsinite.

Donald Trump is different though. I've tried to make it clear from the above that I absolutely agree with you that we excessively demonize the other party and the political environment in American needs to shift. But sometimes the general rule doesn't apply to specific cases, and this is one of those. I do not think Donald Trump is a good person. I think he may well think he is doing what is best for the country, but that doesn't tell the whole story if someone is actually a good person. I think Trump has a documented history of narcissism, bigotry, and questionable ethics. I think it is quite telling that him and his family seem incapable of understanding that there is a significant issue with Trump's plan to just turn over his business holdings to his family members instead of a true nuetral party/board of directors/etc. The fact they do not seem to understand this, even when pressed gives me worry. The fact that Trump has many cases of questionable ethics between making donations to an Attorney General who was looking into prosecuting him, to using charitable foundation's money to purchase portraits of himself that he displays at his own properties, or that he uses those funds to pay lawsuits against his business shows a real lack of ethics. The man is not someone to be respected. I don't think he is ethical.

Perhaps you and I simply mean different things by good people though. If your sole definition is that the person does what they think is right, then I'd agree Trump does do what he thinks is right. My issue is that he really should know better, and has likely been advised plenty of that fact. The man has many flaws that he could work on fixing or at least admit he has flubbed or made mistakes, but he doesn't. When he throws out statements like Clinton/Obama founded ISIS and later claims he was kidding....please. The man spews vitriol and doesn't even apologize for it. He cannot admit to wrongdoing. He doesn't try to change or improve his behavior. He thinks he does no wrong. These are not the traits of someone who deserves respect or someone I would call a good person.

I hope that makes things clearer. In general, I absolutely agree with you. In the specific case of Trump at least, I will disagree. I don't think he is a good person and I think his character deserves the scrutiny for above anything else, I think it is his character and the way he comports himself that most disqualify him from being the next president.