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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Velnesh were included in these tests, though only really used in 2 of them. They averaged 117 points in those games, or 59 if you include doing nothing twice. I honestly don't think we need more tests and that the Velnesh Alphas are ready to call complete. They have shown that their reliance on their defense instead of a special defensive power can let them down, but also that their solid stats can stand up to solid opponents. They've also gotten a response of "fun!" pretty much from the beginning and the whole way through.

I'll make sure all the tests are in the OP and see if there's any more discussion. But I would expect a vote soon.
I disagree that they're ready for a vote at this point after having reviewed the games again. I think that they're close, but we should do our due diligence in making sure that the drop to 90 was fine first. It's only 10 points, but that can make or break a lot of builds. I'm frankly concerned at the builds that we've been running Velnesh in; for context, here's a quick stats breakdown:

1: Velnesh + Honor Guards/Sharpshooters vs. Mariedians
2: Velnesh + Honor Guards/Sharpshooters vs. Mariedians
*3: Velnesh + Unique Hodgepodge vs. Wolves of Badru:
4: Velnesh + Varkaanans vs. Mariedians
*5: Velnesh Hodgepodge vs. Stingers + Ozuul Hodgepodge (game not completed, speculated that they would've killed over their points if so)
*6: Unique Hodgepodge vs. Zombies
*7: Velnesh + 12th Caucasus vs. Hodgepodge
*8: Unique Hodgepodge vs. Unique Hodgepodge (Including 4 AotV units)
*9: Velnesh + Greenscales vs. Yokai
10: Velnesh + Gorillinators vs. Romans
11: Hodgepodge vs. Grok Riders (killed "over" their points by technicality because they killed 3 Groks)
*12: Ozuul Hodgepodge vs. Monks
13: TSA vs. Stingers/Q10 (technically this one included Masha, an unfinalized unit, too, but that held them back more than anything else and I've played ~30 tests with him alone)
*14: AotV Hodgepodge vs. Unique Hodgepodge (including 5 AotV Units)
*15: AotV Hodgepodge vs. Unique Hodgepodge (including 5 AotV Units; never needed to use the Velnesh)
*16: AotV Hodgepodge vs. Romans (including 4 AotV Units)
*17: AotV Hodgepodge vs. Romans (including 4 AotV Units)

Key to the above:
* = Contained 2+ Units in a Volatile Playtesting State. Some contained as many as 5 unfinalized units, which I don't think is a good enough baseline.
RED = Played against a younger player or the game did not progress far enough to where the Velnesh were really used, sometimes because their army won without needing to use them (so them "not filling their points" is highly misleading in some of these cases).
BOLD = They filled over their points (sometimes close to 200).

Of these tests, only six do not include multiple conflicting playtesting units (not counting Masha to be generous). Of those, the Velnesh filled over their points in four games. Overall, eleven of these seventeen tests have been featuring various hodgepodge armies; that's typically the sort of thing that I'd expect to see from the next stage (Compatibility Testing), once we're comfortable with these guys in a more "traditional" setting. A few are fine, but considering how many of these are already AotV hodgepodges, I'm not comfortable with moving them on yet.

I highly recommend reading back through the playtest reports when you have a chance. They're very informative, but I do not think we are ready to "finalize" the unit yet, especially since they only recently dropped to 90 points. I think that they are very close, but I want to run a few more games with no other playtesting units in situations that they'll excel in. Please humor me and wait for trying to start a vote until I or someone else has a chance to put them through their paces just a little bit more. I get that it sucks to wait for longer and that nothing might change, but I want to ensure that everything is at the highest level of quality that it can possibly be.
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