[Hahma]

[quote=OrcElfArmyOne;2194180][quote=Hahma;2194177]

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne

Except we have evidence in the form of tournament stats that heavily suggest otherwise for HeroScape, Armada, and X-Wing. All three are maybe 1% luck of the dice. Out of close to 150 Scape tournament games (100 of those at the GenCon skill level) I can remember losing one game and winning one game due to luck. That's it. Matchups definitely have their hands in a significant percentage. The rest is strategy and tactics, and Armada and X-Wing are both even deeper when it comes to that. We shall see if Legion has that depth.

For X-Wing, I am a Tier 2 player, mainly because I always switch up my lists and don't play enough (I've played more games of Scape in tourneys than games of X-Wing overall). It shows in my tournament win rate: exactly 50%. Compare that to the win rate of Paul Heaver or the Howards, and things line up. Compare that to my much higher skill level at Scape and my corresponding much higher win rate in Scape tournament games and it once again proves the depth. Compare that to the win rate of Dok and, once again, things line up.

I hope Legion will prove me wrong and I'll find some extra layers of depth past just command card usage and army building. As of now, I don't really feel I outplayed in my wins or was outplayed in my losses. It feels like both my opponent and I played at about the same level, and I had a tough time pinpointing more than a couple minor mistakes made in each game for each side.

Also, you're mistaking depth (vertical) for variety (horizontal). YuGiOh has a ton of variety but still lacks depth. Same with Pokemon. More units aren't going add that much depth to Legion's actual gameplay.

So if Scape, Armada or X-Wing had a grand total 4 or 5 unit types available for each side to choose from, they would still be really deep games? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it.

I have no doubt that people that play "lifestyle" games a lot will gain more skill. That skill will come in many forms, but controlling dice rolls probably isn't one of them, other than playing units that allow some mitigation of die rolls. But people will still whiff defense rolls and lose units no matter how good a player they are.

Other than the lack of current army build choices, I guess I don't see what you think is the major difference with Legion, considering it shares many aspects of other FFG games with dice, actions to mitigate dice, upgrade cards etc. So how are people that make Legion a "lifestyle" game not going to get better skill wise, like they do with those other games mentioned?

At the end of the day, they are all going to be affected by dice rolls. Though for the most part, the good and bad rolls should balance out, where both sides get the benefits and penalties of them. So then it's left to the matchup aspect of army builds and actual tactics and strategy on the table.