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Old June 21st, 2018, 03:35 AM
Tai-Pan Tai-Pan is offline
 
Join Date: December 16, 2006
Location: Germany - Gießen
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Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmon View Post
I will say though that I paused on the Recurring Illusions power. I immediately wondered why it mattered that he destroyed a figure to create a new illusion. Something just feels off about that thematically, though it appears mechanically interesting. Wouldn't an illusionist be able to conjure illusions without having to kill something off?

Thematically, you may be right. Thematically, it could be reinterpreted as a kind of Nightcrawleresque or Pokemon Double-Team type attack, wherein the attack itself causes the appearance of an Illusion. Mechanically, it was the safest decision. Making it possible to respawn Illusions without attacking leads to boring battles where he blips in, fights until the Illusions are gone and blips far away to respawn the Illusions. And what are other options? D20 to spawn? That is kind of standard, and not terribly exciting, IMO. Making him have to destroy a figure not only helps him focus on squads moreso than heroes, but also makes him the kind of figure that gains momentum as he succeeds (killing a figure regenerates his defense mechanism), but if he fails (to destroy), his game is off and his Illusions won't be working so well.



I don't know, that's my pitch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Similarly to bmon, I'm struggling to buy the theme entirely.

I can only recommend trying it. And usually that is the kind of thing I wouldn't say because it feels like a shameless plug, but in this case, even I as the designer couldn't wrap my mind around the theoryscape of it. Once it hit the table, I was amazed at how thematic and cool it felt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Two smaller things that also occur to me. Currently, Recurring Illusions seems to be on the wrong card.

I agree that it fits better on the other one. I had done that to keep the cards simple, but maybe a switch and a 3:1 power ration is necessary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
More generally (and this might mitigate the last point), rather than naming Jinn Nasha on the Illusion card, why not go for Unique Illusionist or something that leaves open space for more illusionists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
That would also serve another concern of mine, which is that letting Jinn move "all Illusions you control up to 5 spaces" could really restrict the design space for future illusion units from the Arena sets.

Making the bonding looser to incorporate future Illusionists and Illusions might be an option, but I wonder if making the design that open to expansion would limit what is possible with this design. As Scytale said, it's basically just one figure, self-contained and on two cards.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Certainly an interesting design. My gut reaction is that you're aiming too high with the design in terms of power/points. It's basically a 180pt unit (though it is possible to take turns with the illusions), so that's a big chunk of your army. I can't help but feel a unit like this would rather sit in the 140pt range or lower.

It's a little strange to me that the Illusions remain even after Jinn is killed. Adding in a 6th power to fix that does feel a bit like an overload, though.

Powerwise I have had him play at 200 and it's been about 50/50 win/lose in a 500 pts setting. If he misses a roll for Just an Illusion, he can quickly take damage, but if the Illusion powers keep working for him, he can be a Cyprien-sized nightmare (who also weighs in at 195 points with his cheerleader who has little reason for existence beyond her boost for him when used with him). Cyprien regenerates by killing and healing wounds and has potential to take out two figures at a time, Jinn regenerates his Illusions, which let him shrug off massive attacks (get wasted on his illusions while he is transported to safety) and Jinn has a simpler double attack, which has some strengths and some weaknesses compared to Cyprien's Chilling Touch. Cyprien flies with 8 move, Jinn can get to any space within 5 spaces of any of up to 4 figures.

Jugger

It's like football with swords or LARPing without the geeky stuff. In other words, it's awesomely perfect!
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