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Old October 17th, 2018, 02:05 AM
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Cleon Cleon is offline
Baron of Beantown V
Join Date: April 25, 2007
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)

Thanks for the comments, Dysole.

I'll try to respond to each...

Rats: Yeah I mean rats and Raelin and Q9 are definitely the best three units in the game, I can see an argument for each of them as the best. Personally I think it's down to rats and Raelin, but Q9 is the best thing that, ya know, kills things in the game. He doesn't have any bad matchups or anything, is basically good against everything, and doesn't really care about the map. Not sure, maybe I put him under the other two because I always fear the offchance that he can whiff a big attack and you lose the 180pt.? I don't know.....he's amazing too haha. I put rats above Raelin because I think they are good in every single game, every map, and with any unit. The only time rats might have a 'bad' situation, is if you are in the rare occasion where you're up against samurai or charos and have to attack with them haha. But you should have other units in your army for the attacks (rats/Taelord is a pretty good army though). Raelin's good with every unit too, but I do feel there are some units that are too mobile or want to cover most of the map that in some cases don't want her. Also there are times where a thing like AE kills Raelin early, that doesn't ever happen with the rats. Zelrig can't wipe them all out as easily as other commons.

But yeah, Raelin's stupid good and versatile too, I'm nit picking pretty hard with it. I'm cool with her being the best as well, but I just personally think rats the tiniest bit better. It doesn't bother me at all when people say she's the best in the game though

MW: Yeah MW are damn good for 50pt. and probably the best endgame unit for the points, excluding mr. red ninja. Isamu to me just almost always kills way more than 10pt., and if he doesn't, then it's a 10pt. figure loss that you just added to your army at the end basically for free. He's basically a unit that's just "Oh, you lost the game, well see if you can still win with this annoying ninja!" and he often has a good chance in doing so. Both are like second chance wins, it's just that MW you need some points for.

Gilbert: I already wrote about Gilbert. It's hard to explain, it just feels right to put him up there. The best bonding hero imo

Nerak: I thought I may be putting Nerak a tad too high. Wasn't sure. There's really nothing bad about him, also works with not only Heavies, but also Deathchasers, Blades, and Arrow Gruts. Dok used him in addition with Spider's classic Arrow Grut army and it worked really nicely.

PK's: I'm glad you also think the PK's are great units. I think just the fact they counter Krav, 4th, and 10th so well merits them being a 9 unit. Super versatile, and are all over GenCon since their release pulling results.

Three bonding heroes: Yeah but I felt they were pretty much always great. Alastair works with Knights (and MacDirks! ) and is solid with Mass too, and honestly is pretty nice on his own. Marcus is just a bundle of good cheerleader abilities, and also a decent hero to get into the action with 6 life and the attack boost. Romans, 10th, Romans/10th, Greeks, Greeks/10th, 4th even. Mogrimm is a beast all round and very useful for the Dwarves and Romans. Probably not that bad on his own too.

Darrak: Wasn't sure, felt like him and the Axegrinders go hand and hand. Always think of him as the same power as them. Could go down I suppose.

Deathchasers: Interesting. I like them a lot but I felt the 3-squad was more of a hindrance than their 4 attack was a plus, when comparing them to the other bonding melee squads. They're great units though, I love the heroes they work with. Maybe they should be higher. Not sure about bumping them up to the next tier, though.

Nagrubs: I trust dok's opinion on TKN/grubs more than anyone's, as that's like his signature army, and not many others play it. He said he thinks grubs are probably higher than TKN, and what really makes the army shine. I put them a tier up, but near the bottom of it. TKN I put a high 7. I'm a little worried for TKN on the map dependency, he can definitely get screwed over on certain maps. Nagrubs can help you a little bit on bad maps, they're kinda like rats. Not sure if putting the Grubs in the next tier was the right call, I'll wait to see if dok can chime in on this.

Ne-Gok-Sa: Was considering 8 for him. I like him a lot, he sure is a tank. Always having the threat of Mindshackle is so nice.

Marro Dividers: On paper I would agree. They don't appear to be as strong as I put them, but they always overperform when I see them at tournaments and in my own games compared to how I think they would perform. I'm pretty convinced they're a high 7. Dividing lets them hold and conquer positions, which is so huge in Heroscape. Shout out to Raelin.

Samuel Brown: Really wasn't sure. He does give 4th Mass a special attack though. :P

Heirloom: The Ash brothers/family convinced me he's a solid unit. Maybe I should put him higher. Do you think he's a low 8?

Sacred Band: I disagree. I think you never see them because basically Romans are just better (also they're kinda more expensive figures to own), but they're actually pretty good. Bonding 4 squad with Marcus and Valguard. Can add Parmenio if you're feeling optimistic and can always use 10th and AE too. Also aren't completely secluded to discipline with Parmenio, could add some Krav...not that Parmenio's that great haha.

Cutters: ISB3 is nasty with them, I rememberFilthytheClown did very well with them before. They can be, I agree, but they are sooo bad against the SA's. Q9, Q10, Nilfheim, White Wyrmlings, Laglor, Blue Wyrmlings, and on the offchance you run into DW8K, just massacre these guys. I remember playing a game with cutters against several White Wyrmlings and I couldn't do anything. Zelrig, Mimring, and Brunak are probably worrisome too. I just feel they have too many potential figures to face that completely destroy them, the first three of which I mentioned are quite common in competitive play, and the wyrmlings aren't super rare to face. It's hard for me to justify placing them any higher with these units out there.

Mezzos: Like I said I'm lost on these guys. They could very well be higher, they're one unit I have minimum experience with, and they've had some good results in recent years.

Thorgrim: I like Thorgrim. His defense boost makes him a target, then you get his boost permanently for something (4 def Krav or MW is tasty). He's a solid hero to bond with in his own right, too, 3/4 with 4 life = not bad. I don't trust Hawthorne haha, his stab in back always freaks me out. But yeah he's solid too. Maybe I'll put him a few spots higher.

Sonya: Makes Cyprien even more brutal in his good matchups, but is almost a waste in his bad matchups. Only 45pt. though and could be a decent cleanup against scattered melee in the endgame. I think a low 7 suits her. But not completely opposed to a high 6.

Moltenclaw: Moltenclaw's cool. I think him and Mimring are pretty underrated. Greenscales make every dragon have some nice potential. I wasn't sure, will most likely move him up to where Mimring is. Maybe even higher. He was another I wanted some help ranking.

Frost Giant: Was going back and forth between 6 and 7. My cousin loves this figure and plays him every chance he gets, so I've seen him in action quite a bit. He's a solid figure that was originally overlooked.

Syvarris: I love Syvarris, ran him in teams once. 9 range is so nice. I just really worry about his 2def/4life to rank him higher. Phantom Knights exist and aren't afraid. Still, a great sharpshooter. I'll consider it.

Iron Golem: I might be overrating this figure but I just love the fact he's such a thorn for Q9, Q10, and others alike. I love adding him to armies who fear the Q's to give them something to use in my home games. He could be lower though.

Ashigaru Harquebus: I agree they're very underrated and underused. They don't need to be played with Kato. I do always worry about their base 1 defense though. Could see them as a high 6, not sure if they'll graduate to 7. Maybe.

Valguard: I agree too, again, underrated/underused. Mid 6 seems right for him.

Tornak: I agree. He's not a bad option with the melee gruts. Low 6 might be too low.

HSB: These guys on paper look pretty good but always underperform for me, and seem to for others too. Low 6 feels right.

Blue Wyrmling: Not a bad figure. All wyrmlings bond with each other so you can always splash one or two if you want to. The worst wyrmling yes, but is still usable with the others. For that, I put him with the 6's.

Zombies: Yeah I was lost on these as well. Will most likely move them up. Wanted to hear insight from you all for them.

WoA: Will do.

Marrden Hounds: See my other post.

Raelin SotM: Is never played because Raelin RotV is so much better, but I think she's pretty good in her own right. Just makes you wish you were using the OG one.

Murphy: I view them as the same power. Just gave the edge to Johnny because you can fit him in lower point slots. But I don't really care which is on top.

Tagawa: I don't disagree. Tagawa can be beasts when they get going. My dad plays them all the time they're one of his favorites.

Kurrok: Wasn't exactly sure. But the huge exploitable weakness of killing Kurrok early in Elemental builds always worries me. I'm reluctant to rank him higher.

Otonashi: I don't think Otonashi's very good but it's hard for me to rate a 10pt. figure low.

Retarius: I disagree. I think Retarius is pretty okay, just blatantly the worse option to Crixus, so he's never played. In 600pt. games you might see him partner with Crixus. I don't think that's that bad.

GG's: One of my favorite units in the game and I'm glad you want them higher. I was worried to rank them higher, trying to avoid bias in my affection for them. Not opposed to it.

Kozuke: Yeah they are probably more on the Izumi's level.

Tandros: See my other post on him. I actually don't have too many games with him, either. Not sure if he's more than a 5 though.

Mindflayer: At first I rated him a lot lower but then looked at his card again, and he's not bad. A fun figure for sure.

Deathstalkers: I was pleasantly surprised with how well you and dok did at GenCon my last year I went. They can be a nice wall for your range. Do you think I should bump them up to 5?

Morsbane: He's actually pretty good. Can be a clutch tool for matchups. I don't think he's more than a 4 though.

Question: Does morsbane's ability work after any of your turns, or just when you take a turn with Morsbane? I always thought you needed to take a turn with him, but it does just say 'the turn'. If so he probably should be higher.

Drow Chainfighter: Not sure if I'll put a single turn common hero more than a 4. But he does have good survivability. Maybe I should. I know Matthias would enjoy me putting him higher.

Hive: I already said my feelings on the Hive.....I just don't think it works nor is at all worth the risk.

Sudema: I think Sudema and Runa are pretty underrated figures

Gorillinators: Not sure I agree. Same deal as the Cutters.....but they're more than twice the cost per figure. They have their ups sometimes but it's miserable against those SA's. Still, they have synergy with good figures and are a ranged squad. I'll have to think about it.

Khosumet: LOL I remember that bio. The figure turns out to have no defensive ability and has 3def/3life hahaha. Honestly, I think they messed up and meant to add some kind of shield theme ability like Tough but forgot to. He's silly. I put him higher just because he makes the Anubians safe, and I really like the Anubians as figures. He could be lower though.

Grok Riders: I think Obsidians are worse. But yes they're horrendous.

Brandis Skyhunter: I disagree. He's just a slightly better Pelloth with one more health and 10 less points. He has an offchance of running into a flying heavy matchup, but even then I don't think he's doing much to Sentinels or Minions. His range is too short to consider him a Raelin killer, which was the intention for him. Pelloth also has an offchance of getting a shadow space map, which I was weighing when comparing the two. I think both are two of the worst figures in the game.

Abomination - I was considering putting him an 8 with Hulk, but I like the Hulk's threat of really killing pretty much anything in one hit when he's raged up. I value that a lot, and think Hulk+Kelda or Rhogar could be a nasty build. Abomination works too, but not as effective in my opinion. Still, might be a low 8. With him you get 50pt. to spare, and Marro Warriors are too sexy.

Spider-Man: Yes.

Iron Man: Yes yes.

You won an event with Kiova and IE?!

phew, that was a doozy. Alright I'm off to bed, will discuss more tomorrow.

Last edited by Cleon; October 17th, 2018 at 02:36 AM.
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