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Old October 4th, 2019, 03:25 PM
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Re: Interview questions for how C3V and SoV work in sanctum

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
This is becoming off topic I feel.
Yes it is. Please take side conversations elsewhere.
Sorry, ed.

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
You (note that any use of 'you' is directed towards VC as a whole) don't seem to be interested in outside criticism or engagement. It almost feels as though the main purpose of the customs community is to provide cards for you to judge and to test C3V units for you, and any further engagement, in either direction, is discouraged. Unless someone is in the 'in' crowd, you otherwise seem to not care about their opinions. New ideas or perspectives are discouraged and rejected, both in design and in structure.
Please don't lump C3V and SoV together in these discussions. We work in tandem, certainly, and have influence over each other, but are separate projects with different designs and goals. I am looking at your criticism to find ways to improve SoV, but I have been unable to do as many of your comments seem focused on the secrecy and cliqueinees of the C3V. If there are things about SoV that can be improved, I'd like to know.

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
SoV nominees often seem to be judged on the basis of personal prejudice (I remember one design from years ago being voted down by a judge who stated that it was, at least partially, because it 'didn't fit his playstyle') rather than accepted for the sake of the people who are interested in them. VC offers zero capability for engagement beyond submitting units to an inefficient system that has very specific requirements, takes an age to do anything, will probably only approve anything specifically crafted for it, gives conflicting messages and demands to any design that wants to go through it, and might not like what you've done anyway - one that asks that no workshopping be done in the thread yet still requires that something be 'perfect'.
Yes, it's pretty harsh that we require perfection and do not go back and help the submitter workshop the unit. In our defense, workshopping a unit is just not what SoV was designed to do and, frankly, there's no way we would ever have the time and energy to do so. We put in killer hours with what we already have. Workshopping a unit through the process is essentially what C3V is designed to do, so we would be stomping on their toes if we did the same.

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
SoV judges also tend to have a tendency to treat their opinions as gospel - to respond to people's designs with how it 'should' be done, rather than just advise. There's an undercurrent of arrogance that seems to permeate the whole system.
Are you talking about the Pre-SoV and other workshopping parts or the review process?

In terms of reviews, yes, we are firm in our opinions. There would be no point to our job if we weren't. It's literally our job to be discerning. If everything is great and fine, why don't tournaments allow people to bring their own customs? There isn't just a balance concern either. To make an extreme example, allowing an obscene unit would just be terrible. It's all about drawing lines. It's about what fits into the original game called Heroscape and what doesn't. When the Marvel set was made there were all sorts of fights about whether or not they belonged with the original game. When the D&D sets came out, quite a few people quit buying since they didn't think it fit the game. Different people have different lines, and VC members are far from united on this topic.

That said, it is our job to be impartial in some ways. I've reviewed plenty of units they aren't my cup of tea, but that's not what I'm supposed to be judging them on. If a judge votes based on such bias, they have failed at their job. Sometimes we shuttle units around behind the scenes so judges don't have to try to review units they are too biased against or just can't play well. However, that is quite different than judging units on whether or not they are the best of the best. That has to mean something, or the project has no point.

Our contributions to the Pre-SoV workshop thread have been our attempt to address exactly your concern about engagement. Like I said, we're not a workshop project, and we don't have time to be. But we do try to take some time to help workshop units when people request it. We probably look like pretentious dicks doing so.

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Honestly, just look at anything I've said in the SoV and C3V Feedback thread or the SoV thread.
I always look at your comments. I always try to see things from your viewpoint and try to understand your frustration. But I have been unsuccessful thus far. Amidst the insults and dismissive attitude, most of your comments seem directly at C3V, or at least your complaints. I want to know what the SoV can do better to serve the community.
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