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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

McHotcakes April 5th, 2015 06:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm a little reluctant to drop Parley's roll to 9. I'll do some play tests this week to see how well Parley does in an Army scenario. I'll test him at around 80-100 points.

McHotcakes April 8th, 2015 02:51 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
So I just ran some play tests with Jack at 90 points and here's what went down.

I started the first couple games using Parley on Heroes only just because we talked about it and I wanted to see if that was a legitimate thing to do. The short answer was a resounding no. Squads ate Jack alive. His best showing only had him making it to the third round. Parley must be used on squads for Jack to be effective.

Next I did some tests with Jack where Parley needed a 15. Jack did very well here. He was able to interrupt a lot of figure's turns, especially squads. Jack would often purposely surround himself in a sea of enemies just because it gave him a better chance of using Parley. This felt thematic and something Jack would do.

Lastly I tested Jack with Parley only needing a 12 to work. I know Confred suggested 9, but I felt that having a better than 50% chance of ending another figure's turn seemed a little too much, so I split the difference. And I think I found the sweet spot. Jack's Parley worked enough to be effective but not enough to be broken.

So 12 seems to be the best option for Parley. Note however that Jack never had the opportunity to actually take a turn with an enemy hero. This with out a doubt makes Jack more dangerous then my playtests showed, but it happens so rarely that it really shouldn't effect Jack's overall point cost too much.

Jack's Reserved Bullet came into play a few times. It felt thematic when it worked. In one play test it gave Venoc Warlord 5 wounds. The other two times it came up it seemed to disappoint. Both times only dealing 1 wound to the target hero. But that's the luck of the dice for you.

Jack's Treasure Compass did not come into play very often but was quite useful when it did. A couple of times he was able to snatch up an important glyph right before the enemy could. Another time he used his bonus movement to escape a tricky situation.

I also like the fact that the Compass becomes available when Jack gets taken out. During one of the play tests Isamu killed Jack then snatched up the compass. There was a feeling oh s#!@ as Isamu with bonus movement is a dangerous thing.

It provides a nice element of strategy. Jack was most effective close to enemy squads, but dying close to the enemy gives them a potential game changing weapon. It forces the player to really think about the best way to utilize Jack.

I think the playtests revealed a good amount about Jack, and since this post is already too long as is, I'll start another post to suggest a final draft of Captain Jack.

McHotcakes April 8th, 2015 03:00 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Name: Captain Jack Sparrow
General: Aquilla

Life 4
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 4

Points: 100

Reserved Bullet Special Attack
Range 5. Attack 6.
At the start of the game choose a Unique Hero an opponent controls. Reserved Bullet Special Attack can be used to attack only the chosen hero and only once per game.

Parley
If an opponent reveals a numbered order marker on the Army Card of a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Captain Jack, you may immediately choose that figure to Parley. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the turn ends. If the target figure is a hero and you roll a 20 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen hero and take that turn with the chosen hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen hero returns to the player who controlled the hero before the Parley. All order markers that were on the chosen hero's card will stay on the card.

Heart's Desire
At the start of the game place the Jack's Compass Treasure Glyph on this Army Card.

...

Jack's Compass
Permanent Treasure Glyph

This figure may add 2 to its move as long as it is unengaged prior to moving and ends its move on a glyph.

mac122 April 8th, 2015 03:31 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I like it. Got a few wording tweaks (and there are probably more :) ):
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 2013943)
Name: Captain Jack Sparrow
General: Aquilla

Life 4
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 4

Points: 100

Reserved Bullet Special Attack
Range 5. Attack 6.
At the start of the game choose an opponent's Unique Hero. Reserved Bullet Special Attack can only be used to attack the chosen hero and only once per game.

Parley
If an opponent reveals a numbered order marker on the Army Card of a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Captain Jack Sparrow, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, that opponent's turn ends immediately. If the figure is a hero and you roll a 20 or higher, take temporary control of the figure and take an immediate turn with the figure. At the end of this turn, control of the figure returns to the player who controlled the figure before the Parley. All Order Markers that were on the figure’s card will stay on the card.

Heart's Desire
At the start of the game place the Jack's Compass Treasure Glyph on this Army Card.

...

Jack's Compass
Permanent Treasure Glyph
This figure may add 2 to its move as long as it is unengaged prior to moving and ends its move on a glyph.


mac122 April 9th, 2015 02:36 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Here's the card with the tweaked wording
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...P.jpg~original

McHotcakes April 9th, 2015 06:20 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
That looks good to me Mac :thumbsup: Anyone else have more suggestions?

JC McMinis April 9th, 2015 11:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Should we do the usual 'Scape thing a put PARLEY 12 above the power? But other than that it looks good.

Taeblewalker April 10th, 2015 01:57 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2014163)
Should we do the usual 'Scape thing a put PARLEY 12 above the power? But other than that it looks good.

Adding the 12 does seem like a good idea. The card looks great!

TheAverageFan April 10th, 2015 02:42 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I wouldn't add 12 to the name of a power that has additional effects for rolling numbers other than a 12.

~TAF, randomly inputtingly

mac122 April 10th, 2015 08:40 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 2014184)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2014163)
Should we do the usual 'Scape thing a put PARLEY 12 above the power? But other than that it looks good.

Adding the 12 does seem like a good idea. The card looks great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan (Post 2014187)
I wouldn't add 12 to the name of a power that has additional effects for rolling numbers other than a 12.

~TAF, randomly inputtingly

If we were going to have different power levels of Parley, I could see adding the number. Parley, as constructed here, is a Jack thing. Elizabeth tried to use Parley, but it backfired on her. Even if we do another character down the road with a similar ability, I imagine the power name will be different based on that character's theme.

JC McMinis April 10th, 2015 10:31 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
good point then it gets my :thumbsup:

Confred April 10th, 2015 01:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I agree with putting a value next to "Parley"
12 also sounds good because my next number suggestion was 11.

Parley wording:
1) "you may immediately choose that figure to Parley." This line was added for squads, especially common figures, especially for gaining control of them.
The lead design has removed the function of controlling commons, but for targeting purposes I think having the phrase is still a good idea as it clarifies the rest of the power, but it's not required and can be reworded using different classifiers. It is good because say you had 2 squads of Stingers and only one Stinger was within 4 spaces, the stinger player could argue saying that he was activating four of the others. The way it is written now checks if the figure is in range and if that figure had an order marker removed. Removing that line won't break the power, but keeping it does clarify.
2) Tweaked the 20 result a little to make the "12 or higher" not invalidate the turn.

PARLEY 12 (Hotcakes edit)
If an opponent reveals a numbered order marker on any Army Card of a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Captain Jack, you may immediately choose that figure to Parley. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the turn ends. If the chosen figure is a Unique Hero and you roll a 20 or higher, instead of ending the turn, take temporary control of the chosen hero and take the turn with the chosen hero. At the end of the turn, control of the chosen hero returns to the player who controlled the hero before the Parley. All order markers that were on the chosen hero's card will stay on the card.

3) Why "reveals a numbered order marker on any Army Card" vs "reveals a numbered order marker on the Army Card? to protect against rules lawyering. I will not fight against "the" if the lead reads this and still decides he wants it to be "the"
3b) I also didn't want "any Army Card of any figure", just too many "any"s, but one "any" is needed, since both could be used, I chose the first in order.
4) I tried condensing, "instead of ending the turn, take temporary control of the chosen hero and take the turn' with the chosen hero'.", but it added confusion, "Does this mean I can the turn with any figure? with my next order marker?" etc etc, it wasn't as clear as I had imagined, which was "of course the turn would be with the chosen hero". Since it wasn't so obvious, I kept the stricken through line there.

Original
Spoiler Alert!


Edit: Reserved Bullet Special Attack (Mac edit commentary)
5) "Reserved Bullet Special Attack can only be used to attack the chosen hero and only once per game." vs "Reserved Bullet Special Attack can be used to attack only the chosen hero and only once per game."
re: Ana Karithorn, most recent official unit with wording related to this special power:
"TURN UNDEAD SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4.
Turn Undead Special Attack can be used to attack only Undead figures."
vs
"Turn Undead Special Attack can only be used to attack Undead figures."

Edit: HEART'S DESIRE
At the start the game, place 1 Treasure Glyph of Jack's Compass on this card.
or
At the start the game, place 1 Treasure Glyph of Jack's Compass on Captain Jack's Army Card.
or
At the start the game, place 1 Treasure Glyph of Jack's Compass on Captain Jack Sparrow's Army Card.
6) I removed "Ancient Artifact" title from "place 1 Ancient Artifact Treasure Glyph of...", because that would be a given on the Compass's reference card.
7) Mac was correct in phrasing, "At the start of the game, place" vs "Start the gave with" that was my original version. While no official units place Glyphs that I know of, several place markers and the latest, most updated official unit with such a special power are the Mezzodemon Warmongers, that have the "place" phrasing.


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