Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Either way (initiative boost or movement boost) sounds thematic and within the parameters of the game.

I don't know about $6 for an unpainted metal mini, though

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

After we pass our first character, I'll create a playtesting thread and link the playtest sheet and playtest hints to the first post.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I don't see 6 dollars as paying too much for a mini. Ultimately, let's leave it up to the designer as to which mini to use. I think the most recent mini that JC found is a great fit for Simon. If that's the one he wants to use, it sounds good to me.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

The fig is nice, but as Galahad said, a bit pricey. I think the movement bonus is more fitting than an initiative bonus.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Balantai

It's pricey for those without much money to spend.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I would be careful not to overwhelm his card with too many powers that only give bonuses when fighting undead. Or, if you do, keep the bonuses pretty mild. Otherwise, you risk making him too much of a niche character that becomes way overcosted in battles that don't have undead.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I think both are very fitting. I could justify either bonus.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Well the reason I looked for a new mini to use was because, I thought that it was decided to use a mini pic on the card and not an actual art one. I could not see having a pic of the drow chain fighter on Simon's card, except as the targeting zone.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I could definitely understand that concern. Here's another option.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I think the powers depend on Simon's role. Is he a counter-draft against undead armies, or an all around unit with bonuses against undead.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I have been busy with family, so I couldn't read or post in this very fast-moving thread! Simon looks good - I need to read more thoroughly when I'm not being rushed out the door - but I see him as a great alternative to Ana in the anti-undead role. Great work!

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I plan on making him the later definatley

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

It seems that he should have only one special attack (Maybe against undead or using his whip)

One special bonus (Against Undead or life drain)

And One Special move (Like using his whip to maneuver.)

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I think limiting the cards to 3, mabey 4 powers would be appropriate. As for the powers for Simon, I'd rather his whip be represented as a power, like I belive James Murphy's is. For an attack, if it is based on his undead fighting, I likewhat we kicked around with the holy water one, if it is made for a general attack anyone, dosen't his sword have some powers in the game? I can't remeber since it's been a long time since I played Castlevania. For a move bonus, I think it should be related to the undead so as not to break the them.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Actually in the game Simon's whip is his primary weapon, then he has several secondary weapons, holy water, dagger, axe and boomerang.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

When you're ready to post your first draft, please use this format:

Character Name
(Name of Video Game, Book, Movie, TV Show, etc.)
(Genre)

Race
Unique Hero
Class
Personality

Health: X
Move: X
Range: X
Attack: X
Defense: X

Size: X

Special Power 1 Name
Description

Special Power 2 Name
Description

Points: ??? (please leave point cost as ??? until we get to cost discussion)

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I would think that in order to keep him an all-around figure, if he has three abilities, keep two of them general and 1 of them some sort of a bonus against undead.

IOW, if he gets a movement bonus against undead, his special attack should be general as well as his third ability.

I like the thought of his whip being a special ability rather than a special attack. That gives it the general use that would help make him an all-around draft pick.

Lookin forward to seeing your design, jcmcminis!

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Maybe Holy water Special Attack

Range 1 attack 3

Undead figures may not roll defense

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

The problem I see with a special attack that affects all figures but is especially bad for undead is why would a non-undead figure receive wounds from having water thrown on them? If he has a special attack that has negative affect for undead the attack itself should affect only undead. But then you begin to lose the all-around quality that jcmcminis is going for.

That is why I think any special attack should be completely general with no specific affect against undead and any power that is specifically against undead should be an ability based power and not an attack.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I think this should be put on the OP so it can be found easily.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Great idea, hidicul. Though Health should be Life.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Nice catch Mac, I just glanced over it without really looking.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

And Size should be moved under Personality.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I'm going to go hide now guys;) I can't belive I missed both of those in my scan of it. Maybe I better read things more thoroughly before suggesting they get put in the OP huh.:lol:
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Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

No worries. That's why a community is more powerful than an individual.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

You have a point. We need to find something general for every yet deadly to undead what about like blessed whip. Attack 5 range 3 undead figures roll 2 less defense against blessed whip.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I could go along with that one. I've never personally been hit with a whip, but, boy, I bet it would hurt (and I'm not even Undead).

Depending on Simon's base stats I might lower the attack to 3. You wouldn't inflict as much damage on non-undead but an undead with a base defense of 4 that is dropped to 2 defending against an attack of 3- pretty good odds against the undead.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

That kind of special would work much better and let Simon be useful in more armies.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Now we are all happy:D or at least me and Mac122

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Hey, this... :D... is me smiling ;)

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Vampire Killer Whip
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead with a normal attack, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.

Axe Special Attack
Range 4. Lob 12 Attack 3
No line of sight is required.

Points: ???

I did some reading on the Castlevania wiki the reason the whip is so lethal to undead is one of Simon's decendants lovers was turned into a vampire and her soul was infused into the whip. I went with his axe for special attack rather than holy water to make him more draftable even if your opponenent does not have undead.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

The template is added to the first post.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I like your first draft, JC. Here are my suggestions/critiques:

Reach and Vampire Killer Whip seem like they would make more sense if they were rolled into one Special Attack.

Whip Special Attack
Range 2 + Special. Attack 3
When attacking Whip Special Attack, the defending figure's base may not be more than 3 levels above Simon Belmont's height or 3 levels below his base. If the defending figure is Undead, all skulls rolled count as 1 additional hit.

I would then roll your axe Special Attack into his base stats by giving him a range of 4. This would make room for another ability on his card, also. Perhaps a sense undead ability?

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

If that's the case, I would also bump his base attack up to 4.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

The more I think about it, I would rather his whip be his primary attack, so maybe instead of a special attack we can do this.

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Vampire Killer Whip
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.

Sense Undead
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card.


Points: ???

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

In a game vs. Undead, Simon more than justifies his points, but in any other match-up, he is like a Sir Denrick with a range boost but without bonding, +2 attack vs. Huge or Coward's Reward. His survivability is identical. I would put him at 90 points. He is highly draftable in a vs. Undead army, but he can be taken down easily enough by Zombie Horde, and is still vulnerable to Chilling Touch.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Added Sir G's changes to the form.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I think that is a pretty good assessment, TW.

Nice job, jcmcminis! I think his special ability rather than a special attack is a good direction to go.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Glad you like it, I tought initiative bonus rather than movment bonus was a better assessment at sensing undead.

Edit: Also thinking I should raise his attack to 4

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

No what Tablewalker was saying is that he is not overpowered. Simon does not actually have any resistance to undead attacks, that why I did not give him any.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).

If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.

• First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
• So for the Brainstorming stage.
  • Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
  • If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
  • Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
  • The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
• Draft Stage.
  • Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
  • Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
  • If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
• Voting Stage.
  • Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
• Carding Stage.
  • PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
• HAVE FUN!!!

& best of luck guys.

Cheers

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

That alone raises his cost at least 10 points.

It might be overpowered with the doubled skulls, even though it only works against Undead. If he has height advantage with his bonus range, and he is effectively Attack 10. You might:

A) Give him an auto skull like Sharwin, but only against Undead. This affects both heroes and squads. His cost should not be affected by this change, outside of the raising it already for the Attack of 4.

B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.

Perhaps he can cause an opponent to subtract 1 from a die when rolling for an Undead figure to use a power on him. That hurts both Chilling Touch and Soul Devour. Marcu is irrelevant, since Eternal Hatred is not used against any figure. This can bring his cost up 5 points or so.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I like this idea TW, it's simple and has the potental to be leathal. Granted it's usless against squads, but with a nice attack and possable height how long are squad figures going to last?

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

The more I think about it, Attack 4 seems like a good match for a guy who is a major protagonist in a video game. He becomes pretty useful in any army build, though perhaps a little costly at 95-100 points.

The extra wound against Undead heroes puts him in the category of Brandis against fliers, but with fewer targets. The combined changes let him be more generally badass in any army, while still keeping the Vampire Killer theme going. He also is good against Sudema, by the way.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Well since no one else has said anythingabout this I will. I agree with A3N on all points. I think it may be a little late to implement the one post being updated for this design, but I think it is something that needs to be considered for the next design. As for a time limit on voting, I think going with C3G's standard 48 hours would fit the bill here.

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

I agree that A3n has some sage advice in this post. Thanks, A3n!

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

Ok here is the newest draft.
1) I raised his attack to 4.
2) Changed Vampire killer whip to undead hunter, It now is sort of a compound power in that you add an additional skull, but also intergrates the defense against d-20 rolls.
3)Sense Undead, someone suggested earlier that this would allow him to be able to do leaving attacks against those with slealth flying, I intergrated this into him as well.
What do you think now?

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Undead Hunter
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If an undead figure uses an ability on Simon that requires a D20 roll, you may subtract 1 from that roll.

Sense Undead
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card. Simon may take a leaving engagement attack against all undead figure.


Points: ???

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 

not bad,but I still think he should have a SA that effects un-Undead figures though.