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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred July 9th, 2015 11:51 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
PLAYTEST 2; Round 2
Kratos wins initiative and kills off 1x Nagrub, leaving 2x dead, and then focuses on Tor-Kul-Na as the other Nagrub is out of Range. The two slog it back and forth and Kratos never takes advantage of the new 5x attack limit ceiling.
Nagrubs having only 1 member remaining sacrifice themselves to heal Tor-Kul-Na. Kratos is at 2 Life remaining and Tor-Kul is at 3 Life remaining.
Kratos gets a Nasty dig, bringing Tor-Kul-Na down to 1 Life but only rolls 1 skull for his 3rd attack, again not reaching the new 5x cap.
Tor-Kul-Na stomps Kratos for the victory.

No Godly Artifacts were placed.

Kratos inflicted 260 pts worth of damage before being destroyed.

Wait! to Climb again!

...Rolled 16; that would have been epic, but game over.


Kratos is fun and deadly, a true menace. He feels right. With the new 5x cap he's perfect.
I would really like to test out the Godly Artifacts before thumbs-uping everything.
@JC McMinis I haven't looked at Harry to be honest, I dropped out of that design in its infancy. But your size restriction makes sense from the armchair.
Godly Artifacts shouldn't have such a restriction as, well the Gods are literally Huge figures
@Dysole you've sold me on the new corrections thread. Link it if you would please when you set it up so I'm sure to subscribe.
@TREX in that one version of Claws of Hades where Kratos may roll 2 attack dice can only be done once per attack, so the bonus is higher, but the max total is lower because it can only be done once per attack. That version was done that way to counter the difficulty of charging the Claws in the first place, reducing the figure consumption and saving wordspace by not including verbiage for up to 3 figures removed etc. Again, a version for testing.

I'm suspecting Nemean Cestus should bump from 2+auto to 3+auto to capture the Herculean feel of the weapons. In Playtest 1, I didn't even want to use them since I had height and the Cestus don't bonus due to being special.

Starting Playtest 3 with the same setup
Marro Warriors lead the charge and all get popped by Kratos without inflicting wounds but lured Kratos further out than he would have liked leaving a Tor-Kul-Na the 6 spaces he needed to close the gap. Next OM surrounds Kratos with Nagrubs and Hivelord. Kratos whiffs his first attack with 1 skull and the pod inflicts all damage needed to destroy Kratos, whom failed his Climb with a roll of 11.
I may need to stack the opposing team to test the Artifacts.
Spoiler Alert!

Confred July 9th, 2015 01:47 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Play Test 3: Using 300 pt armies from the 300 pt army thread
Map: Elswin Plateau
Kratos {300} vs Major Q10 + Iskra + Retchets + Marro Warriors {300}
Kratos reveals Glyph of Wannok and Glyph of +1d20 Rolls and forces Marro back, they slowly recover from 1 figure to 3. Iskra charges in and whiffs on her attack and on her Retchets roll, we give her a muligan and instead she flies to height and fails her Retchets roll.
Kratos has a tense bout with Major Q10 as both duck through Jungle pieces. Kratos destroys the Major without a scratch. He chooses....Boots of Hermes! WUT? first pick? yes!
He uses the increased speed to completely ignore the Marro Warriors and climb the rocks to get in Range of Iskra. Inflicting 1 wound on her.
Iskra still has height and rolls a perfect 4 skull and Kratos rolls 0 shields! And she summons the Retchets surrounding Kratos. None roll perfectly but Kratos does take 1 more leaving him at 1 life!. Luckily he has the option to Disengage with the Boots should he choose that route...

Running isn't an option as Kratos has elevations to deal with and the Retchets can Fly.
Kratos Phantom Walks out of 4x engagement and gets to the highest ground where he is in Range of everybody...

The gambit pays off! Kratos destroys Iskra on his first attack and is gifted Claws of Hades (II) By the Gods...

Height advantage is nasty for Kratos btw. He rolls 5 attack dice against the first Retchet. He drains the body and removes a wound bringing him to 2 Life. He then releases the spirit to roll a whopping 7 dice vs the Retchet #2, bringing him to 3 Life. and again vs #3 for 4 Life and storing a spirit for the next go.
I like the Drain Life effect, but I'm weary of and agree with Trex on its power level.
2 dice however is too powerful, and Claws of Hades (II) is reduced to +1 attack dice.

The Marro can only get #1 in Range so they run towards Glyphs hiding in trees and water. All 3 fail to Clone.
Kratos wins initiative and covers the distances easily with his Boots and positions himself to attack all 3. He releases a spirit to roll 1 additional attack die and rolls 2 total skulls. Marro Warrior #1 rolls 2 shields. Kratos' Vengeance peters out at attack #2 with 1 skull to which the Marro easily defended.
The Warriors finagle their movements avoiding engagement, one gets atop Lodin and the other on Wannok. With height advantage, they get Kratos down to 2 Life.
Kratos Disengages and equals his height with #2 and #3 and gains advantage on #1, positioning himself in Range of all three, aiming at the Wannok bearer as priority. and he whiffs with one skull. ending the round at 1 Life vs 3x Marro Warriors.

Kratos wins initiative and attacks at height, increasing his Life to 2 and banking a spirit for the next attack. with 5 attack dice, Kratos rolls 1 skull. The warriors each roll perfect 2x skulls and Kratos rolls 1 shield 2x. Kratos is destroyed and loses his Artifacts. ; rolls 17; and loses the game.

Great game!
Boots of Hermes shining approval.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ring of Protection
This figure may use these boots before moving. This figure adds 3 to its Move value, may move through all figures, and is never attacked for leaving an engagement.

Quote:

Claws of Hades (II.2)
When attacking with a normal attack, this figure may remove figures from this Claws of Hades' card to roll additional attack dice up to a maximum of 3 additional attack dice. Each time this figure destroys a figure with a normal attack, special attack, or special power, remove 1 wound marker from this figure's Army Card and place the destroyed figure on this Claws of Hades' card.
While this version doesn't modify the Climb from Tartarus. The Climb is essentially a 6 Life heal. In a way, removing wounds is a mod to Climb, but is more versatile for figures that cannot Climb. It felt good in play.

TREX July 9th, 2015 02:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Great PT's @Confred , he is quite fun to play. It is a lot harder to pick up the Godly Artifacts than you would think right. Did you see my version of the Claws:
Section 1 of claws
Remove one previously destroyed figure from your card to add +1 to your normal attack. Section 2 of claws
Add +1 to your tartarus roll for having the claws of hades.

To all, would it be right to assume we want a corrections thread then. If so, @Dysole go ahead and pop up a thread for us to tweak the broken or bruised units into perfection.
Oh and I almost have the figure mod done for you guys to see. @McHotcakes , yeah the figures go on the claws card, not the figure using them.

Confred July 9th, 2015 03:26 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@TREX Yes I did see your version, but I wanted to test version (II) anyway as I had set my mind to it before you posted yours. Ironically, Kratos rolled a 17 for his failing Climb roll so your version would have worked.
I was previously convinced to remove the Climb from Tartarus mod from the Claws of Hades and I prefer not to tread backwards. I will of course try and reevaluate anything. I think (II.2) is the better version overall and I encourage you to try it to see for yourself. It has an interesting feel. It has the feel I was looking for - an upgrade that's apart of a bigger picture.

I do like the use of figures as a resource. And I liked how the Claws 'turned off' without a spirit held. And I like how gaining a Life felt when a spirit was captured as if the wielder absorbed some of the spirit's energy. I like how you can 'burn off' spirits for quick Life grabs and I like that they can saved for a big fight.

A cool thing about that last game was that I chose the Boots first and they were absolutely the correct choice. It was impactful to me because I thought the Boots would always be a last pick. (I now think probably Golden Fleece will be)

I liked how there are choices to pick. For my game, the Boots and Claws made sense, but I whiffed on some of my attacks, so the Cestus would have been good also and if I had Bow I could have potentially tagged figures a turn sooner, perhaps even the figures that ended up killing me.

Play Test 4 is next
Map: Elswin Plateau
Kratos {300} vs Major Q10 + Iskra + Retchets + Marro Warriors {300}

Dysole July 9th, 2015 05:30 PM

Off to the Races
 
It's up.

~Dysole, who will keep the front post updated as things pour in

JC McMinis July 10th, 2015 06:44 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Ok here are the updated cards for the Bow, Boots and Cestus please look for any typos please.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psgih86uqn.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psu5do5fxz.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...pszko2s5sf.jpg

TREX July 10th, 2015 07:11 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@JC McMinis On the boots we wanted to change the disengage to a phantom walk kind of deal, so that Kratos may run through his enemies instead of around his enemies. The other two look fine. @Confred , do you have a current version of the golden fleece you could throw up for mcminis to make a card with. Then we can finish up with the claws of hades. We are so close.

JC McMinis July 10th, 2015 07:27 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Sorry I have not been around much but life has been throwing me a few curves lately. Did you guys decide against Icarus' wings. But is this what we want on the boots?

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psyk0rogkg.jpg

TREX July 11th, 2015 01:03 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Looks good JC

Confred July 11th, 2015 01:10 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@TREX @JC McMinis the updated versions, using Ring of Protection's wording read as follows:
Quote:

BOOTS OF HERMES
(+3 MOVE, PHANTOM WALK)
GODLY ARTIFACT

PERMANENT TREASURE GLYPH
This figure may use these boots before moving. This figure adds 3 to its Move value, may move through all figures, and is never attacked for leaving an engagement this turn.

GODLY ARTIFACT
After using any special power on this Boots of Hermes card, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, this figure receives 1 wound. If ever this figure is destroyed, place one at a time all Godly Artifacts on this figure's Army Card power-side up on spaces this figure previously occupied or on empty spaces adjacent to spaces this figure previously occupied. Godly Artifacts are considered to be Ancient Artifacts in every other way.
Quote:

GOLDEN FLEECE
(RANGED COUNTER ATTACK)
GODLY ARTIFACT

PERMANENT TREASURE GLYPH
This figure may use this armor after a non-adjacent figure has rolled attack dice for a normal or special attack against it, and before rolling defense dice. All excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

GODLY ARTIFACT
After using any special power on this Golden Fleece card, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, this figure receives 1 wound. If ever this figure is destroyed, place one at a time all Godly Artifacts on this figure's Army Card power-side up on spaces this figure previously occupied or on empty spaces adjacent to spaces this figure previously occupied. Godly Artifacts are considered to be Ancient Artifacts in every other way.
Quote:

BOW OF APOLLO
(RANGED SPECIAL ATTACK)
GODLY ARTIFACT

PERMANENT TREASURE GLYPH
This figure may use this bow before attacking. Instead of attacking normally, this figure may attack with Arrows of Apollo Special Attack.

ARROWS OF APOLLO SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 9. Attack 2 Special.
When attacking figures without the Lava Resistant special power, for each skull rolled, roll 1 additional attack die. Continue rolling additional attack dice for each skull rolled until no skulls are rolled.

GODLY ARTIFACT
After using any special power on this Bow of Apollo card, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, this figure receives 1 wound. If ever this figure is destroyed, place one at a time all Godly Artifacts on this figure's Army Card power-side up on spaces this figure previously occupied or on empty spaces adjacent to spaces this figure previously occupied. Godly Artifacts are considered to be Ancient Artifacts in every other way.

Confred July 11th, 2015 12:14 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
PLAY TEST 4
Results: Kratos won with full health. Kratos is a force to be reckoned with and leaves no quarter. He may even be more than 300 points tbh. Reduce number of attacks from 5 to 4: Since raising the cap, I have not actually been hot enough to get up to the 5, but since he is as powerful as he is, this could be a cut we can make, perhaps even reducing it to 3 attacks.
The Marro Warriors died in one go, granted these were the very figures that killed Kratos in the past. Kratos then killed Q10 before he could retaliate. Kratos was gift the Bow of Apollo By the Gods. I think I like the Boots better, but the Bow did its job. there is no running with a threat range of 6+9=15. It consistently rolled 2 or more skulls and it killed Iskra from full Life in one order marker. It might be a tad OP and perhaps should have its Range reduced, but I could pass it as is.
Thinking more about this battle makes me think of Claws of Hades (II.2). I like the capturing souls and regaining Life, but I don't like the prospect of invincibility. He'll decimate Squad armies and win most times against figures that cannot place 2 or more wounds on Kratos. Reduce Defense value to 3
Spoiler Alert!

For Play Test 5 I'll change up maps and armies and test with 3x attacks and Defense 3
While looking for a map, I went ahead and played another game on Elswin Plateau
Kratos {300} vs Marro Hive, Marro Stingers x2 {300}
At 3 Defense, the Marro chew through Kratos in one order marker.
Redoing the turn at Defense 4 and playing the game out at that point and then try again at Defense 3 and compare. (While it hasn't come into play attacks 3x is itching me as wrong also)
Even at 4 Defense, the Stingers took out Kratos.
Play Test 6 will be a rematch, double testing against Defense value 3,4 and Attacks x3,x4,x5 and probably a test with Golden Fleece
Stingers tear through Kratos, consistently, and since there are plenty of figures like Stingers, I would say Kratos' power level is where it should be and he doesn't need to be downgraded. Defense 4; 5x attack passes.

I may have to change up the opposing army because Kratos just cannot get through :P.. or maybe get in a team match to further test Climb from Tartarus - a power that will scale tremendously as armies get larger.

Kratos + The Doctor@100 + Krav Maga Agents {500} vs Marro Hive + Marro Stingers x2 + Marro Drones x4 {500}

Taeblewalker July 11th, 2015 03:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2032684)

On the Nemean Cestus special attack, you want to say "a Defense value of seven or higher". You left out "of."


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