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-   -   [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) - Design (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57225)

Captain Stupendous May 11th, 2020 04:58 PM

[Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) - Design
 
The Book of Vlad III

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

Pod leads: @flameslayer93 @Captain Stupendous
Pod members: @Alexandros @Zetsubo @Skinderella

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...226&height=301

Printer-Friendly PDF


Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Lord
Personality = Sadistic
SIZE = medium 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 1 / BASIC
ATTACK 4 / BASIC
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC

125 POINTS

IMPALEMENT 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

HORRIFYING DISPLAY
After taking a turn with Vlad III, if Vlad destroyed at least one figure, you may move each enemy squad figure engaged with Vlad up to 1 space, if possible. Any figures moved with Horrifying Display take any leaving engagement attacks that apply. Figures with the fearless personality are not affected by Horrifying Display.

The figure used for this unit is

Character Bio:
Spoiler Alert!


-Rulings and Clarifications-
TBA

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
TBA

Synergy Benefits Offered
TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA


https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...226&height=301[/QUOTE]

Owlman May 11th, 2020 08:12 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
https://i.postimg.cc/PxStkNwN/Sorin-Esenwein.jpg

Here's a card I made a way back. I personally love his current name "Sorin" (Not really big on the eternal thirst part), and I'm all for him to being an Esenwein!

(Or perhaps he could be a rival Vampire, mebbe one who fights for Vydar, since Vydar's had a little Undead too!)

Let's bounce idea's around, guys! :D

Astroking112 May 11th, 2020 09:45 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Just popping in to offer some thoughts on Sorin!

I get that the sculpt looks like a vampire, but he's one of the few historical opportunities that we have in this box, so I wanted to bring up my idea of turning him into again. This was the rough draft that I posted in the Pre-Brainstorming Thread about a year ago, for reference:

Quote:

Vlad III

Human
Unique Hero
Count
Cruel

4 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
4 Defense
70-90 Points

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.
The idea is that Gore symbolizes the torture and cruelty that Vlad was known for without fiddling with an aura of fear or other complex mechanics, and Paralyzing Stare is just downright nasty to heroes with that combo. Lower stats allow for a lower point total, too, since the majority of our units are hovering around 100 points right now.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring up the possibility of a take on Vlad again in case the idea was buried by the passage of time. Given that Vlad III inspired the tale of Dracula, I think that the pale-skinned Sorin looks like a great opportunity for a loose take on the character.

Feel free to pick anything out of that draft if it sticks. I look forward to seeing what y'all come up with in any case. :)

Owlman May 11th, 2020 10:08 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Nice idea! Tbh, I really feel he should be a vampire, and at the bery least have the Lifedrain ability, especially since his face is super pale, too. Unless we did a historical/fiction version, call him "Vladmir Dracula" perhaps...? Like he's back from the grave hundreds of yrs later!

EDIT: I really like that Paralyzing power. Vampire 101.

Owlman May 11th, 2020 10:16 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
What about something like this?

https://i.postimg.cc/44DBvGyh/Vladmir-Dracula.jpg


OORrrr....Instead of "Whirlwind assault", if we really wanna go full out Dracula, how about something like this:

Superhuman Assault: After moving, when Vladmir Dracula makes an attack, he may continue to use the rest of his movement, if any, after the attack resolves. (Vladmir Dracula must legally be able to end his movement.) Or something like that...that would jack up the price though.


:evilgrin:

flameslayer93 May 12th, 2020 12:48 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Sorin doesn’t need to be a vampire. We still have a very good vampire oppurtunity in Lily.

Zetsubo May 12th, 2020 01:56 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
My initial thoughts were a Vydar Vampire, but that's more of a Sorin conversion. I think we should stay away from making him a vampire (not a fan of Lily as a vampire either, but that's not up to me) to make him something unique.

I like the idea of basing him off of Vladimir "Dracula" Tepes, but maybe not directly turning him into the historical figure. A brutal but effective warlord that demoralizes his enemy.

Heroscaper Guy May 12th, 2020 02:07 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
I mean honestly after trying to think on theme all day, the best way to represent stakes outside of markers (which I dont think is the way to go), is just have the enemy team be horrified and take a bit to go through. Just change the name of the air elys Vortex power. Then maybe do like a brutal leader or something like that and have where once a round you can sacrifice a figure to give a boost to all figures on that army card (for the turn maybe).

flameslayer93 May 12th, 2020 09:10 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
I can see him being a particularly brutal warlord. Nothing wrong with that.

Gore + Attack Aura 1 (from Finn/Gilbert) makes sense for a Master Set, since it's simple and effectively portrays a jerk of a man. It also shouldn't tread too much on MDG/Finn/Gilbert's turf because they all have secondary purposes that really make them distinct.

One special note about him being a vampire though, as @Astroking112 over in the discord pointed out*, he will need to sufficiently different from existing vampires in scape. Otherwise it will just end up feeling like a Cyprien clone, which nobody really wants.

Of the 'Scape Vamps, we have these themes:
Full Aggro: Cyprien
Cheerleader: Sonya
Abomination/Filler: Marcu
Summoner: Iskra
Necromancer: Nicholas

Nicholas ties a bit into Cyprien's aggro territory with overextend, but doesn't get 2 "attacks" per turn like Cyp does. When I originally drafted a design for the mini, I designed him with undead supremacy (+1 to all undead d20 rolls) and a ranged special attack (hellfire). Since that scheme probably isn't needed in this MS, I won't propose it should be an option. We're already going to have ranged heroes, and probably at least 1 more special attacking unique hero.

*I accept no liability for mistaking who said this. :p

Owlman May 12th, 2020 10:48 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Ok, lemme take another stab at a vampire and also warlord human type figure here...be back soon! :)

Owlman May 12th, 2020 06:13 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Here's what I got:

https://i.postimg.cc/DyVnFvkB/Vlad-Tepes-Dracula.jpg

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

Terrifying Presence
All Squad figures you control within 4 spaces and clear sight of Vlad Tepes Dracula subtract 1 from their defense dice.

My thinking was make him a good bargain for his points, but at the same time there's a drawback if you keep Squad figures behind to guard him.

Should we perhaps make it so any Squad figure can be destroyed, or just Utgar figures? Also not sure of his point cost either for what he does right now. 110 is just a guess. He's a warlord so the romans will have a filed day with him lol

Owlman May 12th, 2020 06:19 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
And here's an undead version of him too, which I like a little better, tbh:

https://i.postimg.cc/rFtsCZcY/Vlad-Tepes-Dracula-1.jpg

(We could make this a warlord too, either way instead of vampire)

NecroBlade May 12th, 2020 08:36 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
I'm behind the historical Vlad angle here. Paralyzing Stare, Gore (Cruelty), and Ruthless Warlord are all soli ideas.

Owlman May 12th, 2020 10:35 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NecroBlade (Post 2382245)
I'm behind the historical Vlad angle here. Paralyzing Stare, Gore (Cruelty), and Ruthless Warlord are all soli ideas.

What about this for a Gore type power:

"If an opposing figure wounded/destroyed a figure you control during their previous turn, you may roll the 20 sided die. On a 1-12, nothing happens, on a 13 or higher choose a different opposing figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Vlad, and give them 1 wound."

Something to reflect he was utterly ruthless, attacking another figure innocent instead of the figure who wounded/destroyed someone?

flameslayer93 May 13th, 2020 06:45 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.

Owlman May 13th, 2020 10:08 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2382436)
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)

Confred May 13th, 2020 10:09 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Posture reminds me of Izumi Samurai

flameslayer93 May 13th, 2020 10:18 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2382463)
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2382436)
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)


Ah, I misread something. Carry on.

Owlman May 13th, 2020 11:00 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2382471)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2382463)
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2382436)
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)


Ah, I misread something. Carry on.

Aight, I was gonna keep crankin out cards, but its a lotta' work, lol! :P

another rough draft:

Vlad Tepes Dracula

Life: 5
move: 5
range: 1
attack: 4
defense: 3

Ruthless Warlord:

Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who Follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad, you may immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may roll 1 additional attack die for the remainder of the Round.

Terrifying Presence:

All Squad figures you control within 2 clear sight spaces of Vlad roll -1 less defense die.

Legendary Cruelty/Gore:

Once per Round(?), if an opposing figure destroys a figure you control, and is within (6-8?) clear sight spaces of Vlad, you may give 1 wound to a different opposing figure adjacent to it. Both opposing figures must be within line of sight of Vlad.

Zetsubo May 13th, 2020 03:16 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Reducing defense seems to be pretty common in this set with On Nixilis and possibly Nahiri. I don't want to overuse a neat gimmick. Instead of showing fear by lowering defense, what about having enemies run away?

Quote:

WAVE OF FEAR
You may roll the d20. On a roll of ~9 or higher, you may move all opponents adjacent squad figures 2 spaces each and must end farther away from Sorin. Figures moved won't take LEA.
Basically the anti gravity pull only for opponents cowardly squads?

Owlman May 13th, 2020 03:27 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetsubo (Post 2382659)
Reducing defense seems to be pretty common in this set with On Nixilis and possibly Nahiri. I don't want to overuse a neat gimmick. Instead of showing fear by lowering defense, what about having enemies run away?

Quote:

WAVE OF FEAR
You may roll the d20. On a roll of ~9 or higher, you may move all opponents adjacent squad figures 2 spaces each and must end farther away from Sorin. Figures moved won't take LEA.
Basically the anti gravity pull only for opponents cowardly squads?

I can get behind the running away part! Although all opposing squad figures is a bit powerful I feel, and I like how if you have your own squad figures too close, there are consequences. How about something like:

Terrifying Presence: After taking a turn with Vlad, you must roll the 20 sided die. On a 1-8, nothing happens. On a 9 or higher, you must choose up to 2 Squad figures within 2 clear sight spaces. Move the chosen figures up to 2 spaces each. Figures moved in this way never take a leaving engagement attack.

Owlman May 13th, 2020 03:33 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Example:

https://i.postimg.cc/VNG8M0s1/Vlad.jpg

NecroBlade May 13th, 2020 09:14 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

Heroscaper Guy May 13th, 2020 09:19 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
I think not doing any complicated things, such as out of turn movements (think omegacron, scatter, etc), is the best way to go if we want integration with regular scape. It causes all kinds of problems if figures die or timing issues.

Owlman May 13th, 2020 09:27 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NecroBlade (Post 2382820)
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.


Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Heroscaper Guy May 13th, 2020 09:31 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2382833)
Quote:

Originally Posted by NecroBlade (Post 2382820)
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.


Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Think the paralyzing stare there is to represent the fear that enemies felt (especially in his impalement fields).

NecroBlade May 13th, 2020 09:49 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Right. It could probably also use a rename, and it works just fine.

flameslayer93 May 13th, 2020 11:24 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Probably gonna be a hard :down: from me on the current version of Ruthless Warlord. Stingers, Rats, etc don’t need a cheap Taelord.

Maybe if the power was only a 1-turn buff I can see it being less of a problem.

Heroscaper Guy May 13th, 2020 11:43 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2382861)
Probably gonna be a hard :down: from me on the current version of Ruthless Warlord. Stingers, Rats, etc don’t need a cheap Taelord.

Maybe if the power was only a 1-turn buff I can see it being less of a problem.

Yeah, its why I said once per round with my version. Makes it easier to track too.

Astroking112 May 14th, 2020 01:24 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2382833)
If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Paralyzing Stare is from Me-Burq-Sa (simply adjusted to match Vlad's range). Here's an excerpt from the official bio:
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Book of Me-Burq-Sa
...Me-Burq-Sa carries a powerful plasma blaster at his side, although with his presence and daunting stare, he almost has no need for it. His stare is so powerful that sometimes his enemies cannot even muster the strength to defend themselves against his relentless attack.

Thematically, I think that it's a great fit for a historical take on Vlad, who inspired such fear in his opponents that some turned tail and ran. No supernatural explanation is needed if you guys want to go that route.

As for Gore, I think that it'll actually come up almost alarmingly often with Paralyzing Stare. Depending on the roll cutoff, approximately 50% of Vlad's rolls would ignore defense dice outright, and with 3 attack, you only have a 12.5% chance of not dealing at least 2 wounds. It can be absolutely devastating to heroes. Being limited to 5 move and a single attack helps keep him in check a bit, though you could always push for a more expensive design above 100 points if it feels too underwhelming.

Quote:

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.
This power concerns me greatly. Utgar has a huge number of units, and letting any of them trigger an unlimited attack boost for the round is crazy. Say, for example, that you have a squad of rats. After spending OM1 on them (used mostly for positioning the screen, but 4 attacks of 1 die each leaves very good odds for at least one missing), the rest of your army gets a huge attack boost. Sacrificing a 10 point rat to achieve this is an easy choice.

Owlman May 14th, 2020 03:38 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astroking112 (Post 2382961)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2382833)
If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Paralyzing Stare is from Me-Burq-Sa (simply adjusted to match Vlad's range). Here's an excerpt from the official bio:
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Book of Me-Burq-Sa
...Me-Burq-Sa carries a powerful plasma blaster at his side, although with his presence and daunting stare, he almost has no need for it. His stare is so powerful that sometimes his enemies cannot even muster the strength to defend themselves against his relentless attack.

Thematically, I think that it's a great fit for a historical take on Vlad, who inspired such fear in his opponents that some turned tail and ran. No supernatural explanation is needed if you guys want to go that route.

As for Gore, I think that it'll actually come up almost alarmingly often with Paralyzing Stare. Depending on the roll cutoff, approximately 50% of Vlad's rolls would ignore defense dice outright, and with 3 attack, you only have a 12.5% chance of not dealing at least 2 wounds. It can be absolutely devastating to heroes. Being limited to 5 move and a single attack helps keep him in check a bit, though you could always push for a more expensive design above 100 points if it feels too underwhelming.

Quote:

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.
This power concerns me greatly. Utgar has a huge number of units, and letting any of them trigger an unlimited attack boost for the round is crazy. Say, for example, that you have a squad of rats. After spending OM1 on them (used mostly for positioning the screen, but 4 attacks of 1 die each leaves very good odds for at least one missing), the rest of your army gets a huge attack boost. Sacrificing a 10 point rat to achieve this is an easy choice.

Ehhh....I feel like we are recycling MBS's special, and I'd personally rather try to get as many new and unique powers as possible for this guy.


:down: for me regarding the Stare power.


Also I think we should all agree on if Vlad's gonna be a frontline attacker, or a sit in the back and direct kind of leader (like Katsuro) I personally like more of the sit back and lead Utgar's troops type, who scares the beejebus out of figures, but it seems others want the charge into battle type.

Regarding the Warlord thing, I can see how that can get nuts, although I think we all know Rats are one of the most broken units in Scape. (They really ought to be edit'd to be 60-65 pts by the fabase, IMO but that's for a different thread)

What if we gave him the ability to only activate it up to 3 times per game, like "Vlad stats the game with 3 Warlord markers, remove a marker to destroy a Squad figure, yaddayadda..."

(Also don't forget Vlad needs to be close to the action to activate the Warlord power, so he's putting himself in danger to do so. If 8 range is too much, what about 5-6 spaces? 5 life and 3 defense figures can be killed pretty quick if you're not careful)

Heroscaper Guy May 14th, 2020 04:18 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2383026)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astroking112 (Post 2382961)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlman (Post 2382833)
If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Paralyzing Stare is from Me-Burq-Sa (simply adjusted to match Vlad's range). Here's an excerpt from the official bio:
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Book of Me-Burq-Sa
...Me-Burq-Sa carries a powerful plasma blaster at his side, although with his presence and daunting stare, he almost has no need for it. His stare is so powerful that sometimes his enemies cannot even muster the strength to defend themselves against his relentless attack.

Thematically, I think that it's a great fit for a historical take on Vlad, who inspired such fear in his opponents that some turned tail and ran. No supernatural explanation is needed if you guys want to go that route.

As for Gore, I think that it'll actually come up almost alarmingly often with Paralyzing Stare. Depending on the roll cutoff, approximately 50% of Vlad's rolls would ignore defense dice outright, and with 3 attack, you only have a 12.5% chance of not dealing at least 2 wounds. It can be absolutely devastating to heroes. Being limited to 5 move and a single attack helps keep him in check a bit, though you could always push for a more expensive design above 100 points if it feels too underwhelming.

Quote:

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.
This power concerns me greatly. Utgar has a huge number of units, and letting any of them trigger an unlimited attack boost for the round is crazy. Say, for example, that you have a squad of rats. After spending OM1 on them (used mostly for positioning the screen, but 4 attacks of 1 die each leaves very good odds for at least one missing), the rest of your army gets a huge attack boost. Sacrificing a 10 point rat to achieve this is an easy choice.

Ehhh....I feel like we are recycling MBS's special, and I'd personally rather try to get as many new and unique powers as possible for this guy.


:down: for me regarding the Stare power.


Also I think we should all agree on if Vlad's gonna be a frontline attacker, or a sit in the back and direct kind of leader (like Katsuro) I personally like more of the sit back and lead Utgar's troops type, who scares the beejebus out of figures, but it seems others want the charge into battle type.

Regarding the Warlord thing, I can see how that can get nuts, although I think we all know Rats are one of the most broken units in Scape. (They really ought to be edit'd to be 60-65 pts by the fabase, IMO but that's for a different thread)

What if we gave him the ability to only activate it up to 3 times per game, like "Vlad stats the game with 3 Warlord markers, remove a marker to destroy a Squad figure, yaddayadda..."

(Also don't forget Vlad needs to be close to the action to activate the Warlord power, so he's putting himself in danger to do so. If 8 range is too much, what about 5-6 spaces? 5 life and 3 defense figures can be killed pretty quick if you're not careful)

Or just do "Once per round, when an OM is revealed on Vlad, you may destroy a friendly adjacent figure..." Clean language, prevents him doing it with bonding and has a restriction of him having to have an om on him along with counterplay of he has to be adjacent when an om is revealed (so opponents can play against it).

Owlman May 14th, 2020 04:43 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
[quote=Heroscaper Guy;2383045]

Quote:

Or just do "Once per round, when an OM is revealed on Vlad, you may destroy a friendly adjacent figure..." Clean language, prevents him doing it with bonding and has a restriction of him having to have an om on him along with counterplay of he has to be adjacent when an om is revealed (so opponents can play against it).
Good idea, any one else?

Pumpkin_King May 14th, 2020 05:42 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
We need to be mindful of our goals of making AOTV a master set - there's no swarm figures in the box, so to speak. It doesn't quite feel right.

I'd rather him get some bonus for destroying a figure. Maybe not a Tagawa marker level bonus - something about destroying a figure gives him Deadly Strike for the rest of the round? You could then leave it open to destroying your own figures.

Captain Stupendous May 14th, 2020 07:18 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Lots of ideas being thrown out here which is great! Personally I'd be happy to see this guy as either a vampire or historical Vlad. I might have a slight preference for the Vlad angle, if only because historically themed units are much less common, both within this set and VC as a whole, so it would be nice to have a little more diversity there. Also, as others have said, we'd want to make sure that a vampire hero was sufficiently distinct from the other vampires.

If we do go with the Vlad direction, I agree that another movement power in the set might be a little too much when we already have Ozuul and Deinekes. I like PK's idea of representing his cruelty by giving him some sort of bonus for destroying figures. Probably the best way to do that mechanically would be to require the player to reveal the X order marker after destroying a figure to trigger the bonus. While giving him Deadly Strike would be thematic, it might be simpler to just give him a straight attack bonus?

I also think that some form of Ruthless Warlord could work as well, although I think that most of the suggestions so far would need to be reined in a decent bit.

Tornado May 15th, 2020 06:18 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
If you go Vlad, an Impaler power would be cool.
Where he leaves the bodies of destroyed figures on the battlefield as trophies and to breed fear.

Owlman May 15th, 2020 09:38 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2383300)
If you go Vlad, an Impaler power would be cool.
Where he leaves the bodies of destroyed figures on the battlefield as trophies and to breed fear.

I had a power called "Impale" but no ones going for it apparently, haha :P

Tornado May 15th, 2020 10:05 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

flameslayer93 May 15th, 2020 01:13 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2383330)
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

Ketchupgeek May 15th, 2020 01:21 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2383434)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2383330)
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

You can always work around it in this case that the card is based on the "legend" of Vlad the Impaler and the rumors of things he did and less about the actual guy. Did he actually paralyze people with his stare? No. But is it believable for the legend? You betcha.

Heroscaper Guy May 15th, 2020 01:44 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2383434)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2383330)
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

And if its an issue we can just call him dalv.

flameslayer93 May 16th, 2020 06:49 AM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy (Post 2383456)
Quote:

Originally Posted by flameslayer93 (Post 2383434)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2383330)
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

And if its an issue we can just call him dalv.


That's ok, I was jokingly calling him Chadmir in the discord lol.


Back to serious mode:
Since an attack aura has been discussed (and certainly needs to be toned down both for the Master Set and for the actual metagame...), I'll toss out the simplicity of Attack Aura 1 again. As long as he has a power that is good in battle (such as Paralyzing Stare, Gore or a rename of it), the theme of him scaring his own troops so much that they'll fight harder will come through nicely. Plus, since powers are effectively reuses, we make Scytale's life easier. ;)



Quote:

Vlad Dracula :utgar:
Human/Warlord/Terrifying/Medium 5
5 Life/5 Move/1 Range/3 Attack/4 Defense


Attack Aura 1: Adjacent melee dudes get +1 attack.
Paralyzing Stare 16: On a 16+, dudes Vlad attacks can't roll defense.
Gore: +1 wound to heroes that Vlad damages.
90 points

Owlman May 16th, 2020 12:30 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
So I was thinking, what if we make Vlad a throwback to Ornak in some respects?

Also, would anyone be open to the idea of instead recycling MBS's shtick, instead it becomes sort of a reversal when a Hero decides to attack Vlad?

(My wording may be too complicated here, just a rough draft)

Like this:


Vlad Tepes Dracula
Human/Warlord/Terrifying/Medium 5
5 Life/5 Move/1 Range/4 Attack/3 Defense
120-140 pts??)


Ruthless Warlord
If Order Marker 1 is placed on Vlad, then instead of taking a turn with Vlad, you may destroy an adjacent Squad figure you control, then immediately take a turn with 1 Squad you control who follows Utgar. Each figure in the Squad moved in this way may add 1 to their Movement and Attack dice for this turn. (All Squad figures used in this way must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad before moving.)

Paralyzed with Fear
When an adjacent Unique Hero would choose to attack Vlad, you must roll the 20 sided die. On a 16 or higher, that figure may not attack Vlad, and immediately ends its turn.

Gore
When Vlad successfully wounds a Unique Hero, you may choose an adjacent Squad figure, and destroy it.

(Granted that version of Gore may be a little powerful...)

Pumpkin_King May 16th, 2020 01:46 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
We need to keep in mind complexity levels. 3 powers is a lot, especially when they do everything that they do.

Also, yeah, we should probably find another Romanian name that still brings to mind Vlad.

Making him a warlord is a great idea.

What about combining the “bonus for killing” with an aura - if he destroys a figure, the rest of the round he adds 1 to all figures adjacent and himself?

Owlman May 16th, 2020 02:41 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 2384013)
We need to keep in mind complexity levels. 3 powers is a lot, especially when they do everything that they do.

Also, yeah, we should probably find another Romanian name that still brings to mind Vlad.

Making him a warlord is a great idea.

What about combining the “bonus for killing” with an aura - if he destroys a figure, the rest of the round he adds 1 to all figures adjacent and himself?

I personally love the Gore ability moreso than any Stare ability, although the way I worded it is more like Cleave tho, I realized...*face palm*

I'm a big fan of the full "Vlad Tepes Dracula" as a full name.

Pumpkin_King May 16th, 2020 04:39 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
I suppose we do have Spartacus in classic.

Heroscaper Guy May 16th, 2020 05:19 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 2384113)
I suppose we do have Spartacus in classic.

Crixus and Parmenio say hi.

flameslayer93 May 16th, 2020 05:20 PM

Re: [Pod 2] Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 2384113)
I suppose we do have Spartacus in classic.

And isnt there the einar sniper from C3V who was a real guy?


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