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-   -   The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55039)

Ronin August 2nd, 2018 09:15 PM

The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules
 
The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

C3G SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 72
START YOUR ENGINES!

https://www.heroscapers.com/c3g/rele...ects-cover.jpg

PDF


This set of rules is necessary to fully enjoy C3G Destructible Objects. It is designed to enhance your superhero battles by allowing figures to ride designated Vehicle Destructible Objects around the battlefield, and allow you to draft them alongside your favorite heroes!

_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-Rules Updates:
2 April 2021 - Total overhaul to encompass all DO rules.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 09:33 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT RULES
Spoiler Alert!

Ronin August 2nd, 2018 09:35 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Original OP:
Spoiler Alert!

----------------------


Good thought!

The Book of Vehicle Optional Rules

Current Version Being Tested
Spoiler Alert!


Past Version
Spoiler Alert!

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 09:40 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Honestly, I don't think we'll have to add much in the way of rules. Check this FAQ question from the OP of the Rules thread:

Q: The Vehicle Rules state that figures that occupy vehicles are no longer on the battlefield. Does that mean that the last figure in an Army can't use vehicles? After all, a player loses if he doesn't have any figures remaining on the battlefield.
A: Under Occupying Vehicles section, the rules state that "you now control that vehicle". This is VERY important to remember as you play the game with special powers that reference opponent's figures (DOs are treated as figures in C3G) and also designing powers. This section also answers your question, because even though your last figure got into a car, the car is now your DO/figure. So the game is not over.

Not a huge change between being in your army once occupied and starting in your army. It's just the whole enemy occupation thing that could get messy.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 09:46 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Running questions as I read over the rulebook:

1. Leftbox: In current VDO cards we only have occupancy and size/height in the leftbox. If we make them draftable do we go full, typical leftbox including species, personality, etc.? And if so, where do we put the occupancy?

2. Stats: VDOs have Life, Move, and Defense values right now. If they become draftable, do we give them Attack and Range values? Or only ones that have actual weapons? Or do we just do those things as special attacks.

3. If a VDO is draftable, OMs can be placed and removed on them, right? Which means a VDO is now taking a turn. What does a VDO do on its turn? Can it move? Can it attack? Can it only do these things if occupied?

4. Entering the vehicle. Current VDO rules don't let you enter a vehicle with one or more figures controlled by another Player occupying that vehicle. Basically once that vehicle is occupied, it's under the control of the occupant. Would we continue with that and make it really easy, potentially, to lose control of a VDO you drafted, or would a VDO have to be mind controlled, etc., and actually change hands before a different player could occupy it?

I have some thoughts on all of these but want to hear from others first (spoiler: I favor as little change as possible, which means a bit of risk to drafting these, but I'm OK with that).

Ronin August 2nd, 2018 09:53 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
I don't think making them draftable means we need to give them attack numbers or let you put OMs on them or anything - Spells don't work that way, for instance.

My personal preference would be that drafting a VDO meant you got to place it in your SZ at the start of the game and from that point, it behaved as normal for a VDO that started on the battlefield.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 09:54 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Perfect. :up: You didn't fall for my trap. I agree completely. At most I'd argue that once your placed the VDO in your start zone, its card became a temporary part of that start zone and you could place other figures there as part of the initial placement (up to its occupancy of course).

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 09:55 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
So for 1-3 keep things just the same. For 4, keep them the same because it's really not that big of a deal. You're only opening yourself up to occupancy switches (especially if we go with my start zone idea) if you choose to exit the vehicle. Otherwise only mind control and vehicle destruction can get that figure out of the vehicle.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 10:07 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
I think draftable VDOs will need two additions to their cards:

1. Point value
2. An indication of uniqueness. A VDO should be "common" or "unique" to indicate how many of that exact model you can draft in one Army. Maybe this isn't necessary, but a distinction between a standard Squad Car and the Batmobile seems reasonable to me here.

As for writing up the rules, I'd crib as much as possible and relevant from the nicely written drafting section of the Spell rules, copied here for workshopping (shout out: Yodaking):

Spoiler Alert!

Yodaking August 2nd, 2018 10:10 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
If you are going to go down this route I could see a Tank or something similar one day getting created where it featured mounted weapons the operator could use instead of their normal attack. I actually found a 3-D printer file for a Cobra Fang and printed it out. I figured I would make it a draftable card with pilot already included, but you could also just make it without a pilot and then Baroness or someone would jump in and fly it around until shot down.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 10:11 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
That's definitely something that needs to happen and could be spelled out in a special attack on that VDO's card, IMO.

The other thing we may need to tackle that's going to be a lot lot harder is greater than 2 hex figure/vehicle movement.

Ronin August 2nd, 2018 10:15 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207207)
I think draftable VDOs will need two additions to their cards:

1. Point value
2. An indication of uniqueness. A VDO should be "common" or "unique" to indicate how many of that exact model you can draft in one Army. Maybe this isn't necessary, but a distinction between a standard Squad Car and the Batmobile seems reasonable to me here.

As for writing up the rules, I'd crib as much as possible and relevant from the nicely written drafting section of the Spell rules, copied here for workshopping (shout out: Yodaking):

Spoiler Alert!

Good point! I think we'll definitely want a Common/Uniqueness distinction.

Letting people start off in vehicles might be okay, but it might make them a little too efficient as figure-deployers? That's a factor that would impact their cost, at least.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 10:17 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Taking a shot at some rules text:

Draftable Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs), unlike normal VDOs, act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. Draftable VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Draftable VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Draftable VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like normal VDOs and other Army Cards, Draftable VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and, unlike normal VDOs, are considered in that Player's Army. However, just like a normal VDO, a Draftable VDO is not considered under a Player's control unless that Player has one or more figures occupying that Draftable VDO (see Vehicle Destructible Object rules).

A Draftable VDO follows all other VDO rules.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 10:18 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2207218)
Letting people start off in vehicles might be okay, but it might make them a little too efficient as figure-deployers? That's a factor that would impact their cost, at least.

Sure, but other than being figure deployers, most of them won't have a terrible amount of use. I guess they might be protection for Order Marker hubs that don't require clear sight.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 10:36 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
The start in it power could be unit-specific, I guess. Makes the rules cleaner to put together without it anyhow. My only concern is the other player having start zone rushers on a small map and taking over your vehicle before you can get in it, but I guess if the map is too small vehicles are a waste anyway.

Ronin August 2nd, 2018 10:44 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207215)
That's definitely something that needs to happen and could be spelled out in a special attack on that VDO's card, IMO.

The other thing we may need to tackle that's going to be a lot lot harder is greater than 2 hex figure/vehicle movement.

Mole Machine sidesteps that issue by pseudo-teleporting. If the Batmobile takes up more than a couple spaces, then yeah, we may need to work something out. Might be a good thing to do anyway, like we were talking about in the Bucket List thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207235)
The start in it power could be unit-specific, I guess. Makes the rules cleaner to put together without it anyhow. My only concern is the other player having start zone rushers on a small map and taking over your vehicle before you can get in it, but I guess if the map is too small vehicles are a waste anyway.

Yeah, I think it would be easier to start the rules without that, and most units don't need it. We can save that for where it's most thematically needed.

IAmBatman August 2nd, 2018 10:53 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Cool. Hopefully the draft I put up for the rules text will move us close to the finish line on the rules part of this. Once we wrap that, it's just a matter of creating a draftable VDO to test them with.

Ronin August 3rd, 2018 12:18 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207220)
Taking a shot at some rules text:

Draftable Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs), unlike normal VDOs, act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. Draftable VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Draftable VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Draftable VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like normal VDOs and other Army Cards, Draftable VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and, unlike normal VDOs, are considered in that Player's Army. However, just like a normal VDO, a Draftable VDO is not considered under a Player's control unless that Player has one or more figures occupying that Draftable VDO (see Vehicle Destructible Object rules).

A Draftable VDO follows all other VDO rules.

Does it make sense to have draftable and undraftable VDOs, or should we just make them all draftable?

Retesting and costing the Sports Car and Mole Machine (probably as a Common and a Unique, respectively) would give us a useful test bed for the new rules, and help us figure out how much Vehicles are worth, so I like the idea of making those draftable.

Do we think we'd ever need to design an undraftable one again in the future? They don't seem to have been very attractive to design previously.

IAmBatman August 3rd, 2018 08:25 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
That's a solid point and not having to apply the "draftable" adjective before every other instance of VDO would clean up the rules text. :-)

At that point we'd be looking at a revision of the VDO rules instead of a new set of rules. Do @japes or @A3n still have access to a file they can edit for that?

Also, that's basically a reevaluation at that point (well, one for the rules and one for each vehicle) so it'd be something that would require a whole Hero vote, I'd think.

But, yeah, I'd be in favor. If we're going to make a draftable Batmobile, Mole Man should be able to draft his Mole Machine with him.

Ronin August 3rd, 2018 08:38 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207294)
That's a solid point and not having to apply the "draftable" adjective before every other instance of VDO would clean up the rules text. :-)

At that point we'd be looking at a revision of the VDO rules instead of a new set of rules. Do @japes or @A3n still have access to a file they can edit for that?

Also, that's basically a reevaluation at that point (well, one for the rules and one for each vehicle) so it'd be something that would require a whole Hero vote, I'd think.

But, yeah, I'd be in favor. If we're going to make a draftable Batmobile, Mole Man should be able to draft his Mole Machine with him.

Yeah, we'll need a formal vote at some point, but I don't think anyone's ever weighed in against the idea when it's brought up.

IAmBatman August 3rd, 2018 08:39 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Sure, it'd just be good to know we're all buttoned up so we can move forward in confidence. :-) Especially if we're all in agreement to revisit all VDOs as something draftable rather than just adding draftable VDOs to the overall VDO mix.

(I'm on board with you fully, though, for clarity :up: ).

Ronin August 3rd, 2018 12:33 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Okay, so here's a spin at the rule additions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1441873)
Legacy Text:

C3G VEHICLE RULES

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS - VEHICLES
Destructible objects are an official inclusion in the game, as seen with the Fortress Door and the Destructible Wall. C3G rules for destructible objects were established in the C3G Destructible Objects Rules. Vehicles are a type of destructible object that follow all of the rules of other destructible objects, but include a few specific to vehicles.

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas:

- Drafting Vehicles
- Entering Vehicles
- Occupying Vehicles
- Moving Vehicles
- Exiting Vehicles
- Destroying Vehicles

EXAMPLE 1: VEHICLE CARD
(Sample Card here)
A vehicle has three four designations in the left box of its Army Card: uniqueness, size, height, and occupancy. The size and height designations (such as Medium 5) are the same as those found on other figures' Army Cards.

DRAFTING VEHICLES
Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).


(rest of vehicle rules as normal)

EDIT: Addendum for squad movement rules (pending official wording): moving a vehicle replaces the entire movement phase of a squad card, not the movement phase for the swuad figure or figures occupying that vehicle.

I branded them as Unique/Uncommon instead of Unique/Common, because the Sports Car has 4 Life, and I'm not sure we'll ever see a ton of 1-Life vehicles.

So what else are we gonna need to clarify here? I kinda want to have the new rules prototyped before calling for a vote.

Scapemage August 3rd, 2018 12:46 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
This is sounding pretty good. It's not difficult to add a uniqueness to our existing vehicles. Everything else is fairly straightforward.

IAmBatman August 3rd, 2018 12:53 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
That looks solid. Good call on uncommons, though we'll have to be really careful to check for power stacking on them.

I think there may be a sentence in the current rules that says something about your not being able to draft VDOs or them not being in your Army (one or the other). We'll have to find that and make sure to edit it out if we make this change.

So far we just have the Mole Machine (unique) and Sports Car (uncommon) so we should be able to get both types figured out as part of this process, but not have too much we need to reevaluate.

IAmBatman August 3rd, 2018 04:53 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
So what do we need to do to get this to a votable place?

Ronin August 3rd, 2018 05:39 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207536)
So what do we need to do to get this to a votable place?

I'll double check the rules (or someone else can do it) to make sure there's nothing else obvious that needs to change. Then come up with some initial cost guesses for the Sports Car and the Mole Machine, and call a vote to start testing the new rules.

Tornado August 4th, 2018 09:31 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Looking good. Have to keep an eye on Selene and her DO power.

IAmBatman August 4th, 2018 09:44 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
For the Sports Car, I'd start the projection around 100 points (based on a stats comparison in the index. Closest I could find is Ragdoll, who also has 4 Life and 6 defense, has a move of 6 compared to the Car's 8, and has only a range 1 attack 3, which compares to Hit and Run).

Ragdoll doesn't fly or have super strength either. Contortionist only has a bit extra utility beyond just not taking leaving engagement attacks (which the car does naturally). Clingy ties down shooters, but the Car protects riders. The car has the slight downside of being easy to take over if you exit it, but also has suped up Carry, basically. So I'd say 90-100 would be a good starting point for that.

IAmBatman August 4th, 2018 09:47 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
The Mole Machine compares really similarly, except with much better movement (since it's basically a place anywhere power) and better defense (8 compared to 6).

Best comparison I could get is Jay Garrick Flash, with his 10 move and Super Speed, Range 1, Attack 4, and 7 Defense. I'd say it's pretty close (Flash's aura is better, the Mole Machine's movement utility and defense are better). I'd say start with 200 (slightly under Flash's 220) and go from there.

Scapemage August 4th, 2018 11:13 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
I'd err on the lower side for VDO costs, since they can't take turns by themselves, similar to Green Constructs.

Yodaking August 6th, 2018 04:48 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2207622)
Looking good. Have to keep an eye on Selene and her DO power.


Any thoughts on how the Lawmaster might play in these rules?

Tornado August 7th, 2018 07:41 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Still planning on making them Uncommon Heroes.

IAmBatman August 7th, 2018 09:55 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2208413)
Still planning on making them Uncommon Heroes.

Are they basically A.I.?

Tornado August 7th, 2018 10:00 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Yeah, remember when you said KITT would be the only Unique Hero vehicle and I said Lawmaster?

One Lawmaster even went rogue and started dispensing justice on its own.
https://i0.wp.com/www.starkafterdark...ster668739.jpg

IAmBatman August 7th, 2018 10:30 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Sounds right.

Ronin August 7th, 2018 12:34 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2207406)
Okay, so here's a spin at the rule additions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1441873)
Legacy Text:

C3G VEHICLE RULES

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS - VEHICLES
Destructible objects are an official inclusion in the game, as seen with the Fortress Door and the Destructible Wall. C3G rules for destructible objects were established in the C3G Destructible Objects Rules. Vehicles are a type of destructible object that follow all of the rules of other destructible objects, but include a few specific to vehicles.

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas:

- Drafting Vehicles
- Entering Vehicles
- Occupying Vehicles
- Moving Vehicles
- Exiting Vehicles
- Destroying Vehicles

EXAMPLE 1: VEHICLE CARD
(Sample Card here)
A vehicle has three four designations in the left box of its Army Card: uniqueness, size, height, and occupancy. The size and height designations (such as Medium 5) are the same as those found on other figures' Army Cards.

DRAFTING VEHICLES
Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).


(rest of vehicle rules as normal)

I branded them as Unique/Uncommon instead of Unique/Common, because the Sports Car has 4 Life, and I'm not sure we'll ever see a ton of 1-Life vehicles.

So what else are we gonna need to clarify here? I kinda want to have the new rules prototyped before calling for a vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207626)
For the Sports Car, I'd start the projection around 100 points (based on a stats comparison in the index. Closest I could find is Ragdoll, who also has 4 Life and 6 defense, has a move of 6 compared to the Car's 8, and has only a range 1 attack 3, which compares to Hit and Run).

Ragdoll doesn't fly or have super strength either. Contortionist only has a bit extra utility beyond just not taking leaving engagement attacks (which the car does naturally). Clingy ties down shooters, but the Car protects riders. The car has the slight downside of being easy to take over if you exit it, but also has suped up Carry, basically. So I'd say 90-100 would be a good starting point for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207627)
The Mole Machine compares really similarly, except with much better movement (since it's basically a place anywhere power) and better defense (8 compared to 6).

Best comparison I could get is Jay Garrick Flash, with his 10 move and Super Speed, Range 1, Attack 4, and 7 Defense. I'd say it's pretty close (Flash's aura is better, the Mole Machine's movement utility and defense are better). I'd say start with 200 (slightly under Flash's 220) and go from there.

@dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

Do those sound like reasonable cost guesses for what we're trying to do here? Any concerns? Big rules gaps we need to close?

Spidey'tilIDie August 7th, 2018 04:34 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
What about giving them a class which would also be a quick reference to occupancy? i.e. Compact - 2 people; Sedan - 4 people; SUV - 6 people; Truck - 2 people plus item or items; Public - up to 20 people (thinking bus or train here, possibly passenger jet, if ever needed.) These are just my initial thoughts.

quozl August 7th, 2018 04:41 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
I would rather not have the class written on the card and just keep Occupancy there.

Lazy Orang August 7th, 2018 04:51 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Yeah, keep these as DOs, just ones you can start with.


Honestly, I'm wondering if we should make draftable DOs their own category/rule, one that includes both regular and VDOs... but not all of them. I can theoretically see the point in a draftable static DO (shield generator to start with - not necessarily that, but there are possibilities), and that way we could do those as well if we wanted to but have no actual requirement to make any given DO or VDO draftable... so, if we wanted to make a non-draftable VDO, we could, or a draftable DO, we could. Just a more flexible, useful system.

quozl August 7th, 2018 04:56 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
I'm with you, L_O, but that's a big project. Let's start with VDOs and see where it leads.

Ronin August 7th, 2018 04:58 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Yeah, I'd like to end up there eventually. Starting with Vehicles as a test case, though!

Lazy Orang August 7th, 2018 05:00 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2208616)
I'm with you, L_O, but that's a big project. Let's start with VDOs and see where it leads.

It's not, actually. I'm just talking about putting the rule in place, not making any present DOs draftable (in fact there aren't any static ones right now I'd want to be draftable). It's just the introduction of a set of 'drafting DO rules' that mean that any DO with a points cost, Vehicle or otherwise, can be drafted and placed in your start-zone, and if it doesn't, it can't (even if it's a VDO, so it gives us room for non-draftable VDOs if we wanted to make any). We'd only have to start with the two existing VDOs since they're the only existing DOs we'd want draftable, and it would mean that any future DOs we make, vehicle or not, could be made draftable or not as we see fit. It's literally no more work initially, it just gives us more room to manoeuver, on both sides.

Ronin August 7th, 2018 05:05 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Vehicles come with some additional challenges, so I'd like to make sure we work those out. Once we have the mechanics for Vehicles finalized, though, we could definitely write it up in the rules as a general draftable DOs rule and then have the Vehicle Rules just clarify the extra stuff relevant to Vehicles.

Lazy Orang August 7th, 2018 05:06 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2208624)
Vehicles come with some additional challenges, so I'd like to make sure we work those out. Once we have the mechanics for Vehicles finalized, though, we could definitely write it up in the rules as a general draftable DOs rule and then have the Vehicle Rules just clarify the extra stuff relevant to Vehicles.

That's basically what I was suggesting. :)

Ronin August 7th, 2018 05:07 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
:up:

Soundwarp SG-1 August 8th, 2018 01:37 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2208497)
@dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

Do those sound like reasonable cost guesses for what we're trying to do here? Any concerns? Big rules gaps we need to close?

Sorry I'm late replying here.

Anyway, I only barely understand the VDO rules (never looked at them before now, I couldn't be less interested in the whole thing personally), but I think the core rules here are sound. My issue is really more with how all the vehicles are going to have a variation of Carry and an auto-wound power, as those are two of the very best things a card can have. I don't think the Mole Machine is going to come in at 200 for example, it is more useful than that.

Personally, I'd shoot for these being... not overcosted but like on the high side of what feels right... anyway. Like they should be available to those that want to use them, but they shouldn't be so good that they're something people feel obligated to draft to get the best army they can. C3G already does a lot of complicated stuff just within the basic game, requiring people to learn VDO rules or spell rules or whatever just to be able to run a half decent army is something I'm very wary of as it feels like a great way to kill off any newcomers' interest in the game. Not saying we're at that point now, just that it is something to be mindful of.

quozl August 8th, 2018 01:43 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
They are considered optional, like Knockback, so any tournament could just say they're not allowed.

Ronin August 8th, 2018 01:51 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 (Post 2208860)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2208497)
@dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

Do those sound like reasonable cost guesses for what we're trying to do here? Any concerns? Big rules gaps we need to close?

Sorry I'm late replying here.

Anyway, I only barely understand the VDO rules (never looked at them before now, I couldn't be less interested in the whole thing personally), but I think the core rules here are sound. My issue is really more with how all the vehicles are going to have a variation of Carry and an auto-wound power, as those are two of the very best things a card can have. I don't think the Mole Machine is going to come in at 200 for example, it is more useful than that.

Personally, I'd shoot for these being... not overcosted but like on the high side of what feels right... anyway. Like they should be available to those that want to use them, but they shouldn't be so good that they're something people feel obligated to draft to get the best army they can. C3G already does a lot of complicated stuff just within the basic game, requiring people to learn VDO rules or spell rules or whatever just to be able to run a half decent army is something I'm very wary of as it feels like a great way to kill off any newcomers' interest in the game. Not saying we're at that point now, just that it is something to be mindful of.

Yeah, definitely agree with that philosophy. A generic Sports Car or whatever especially doesn't need to be some kind of juiced competitive beast.


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