Heroscapers - Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!

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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

Simplicity is very strong with Scy’s draft. Honesly all I’d add to is a Snow power and tweak the stats a bit, perhaps +1 Defense to better portray the armor for her and the wolf.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

A mish-mash here.

Queen Listaria

Ullar
Elf
Unique Hero
Queen
Resolute
Large 6

Life = 5

Move = 8
Range = 1
Attack = 5
Defense = 4

POINTS = 150??

ULLAR'S BATTLE DANCE
After rolling defense dice for a figure that you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Listaria who follows Ullar, you may move another figure that you control who follows Ullar up to 4 spaces. If a figure moving with Ullar's Battle Dance is engaged when it starts to move, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Ullar's Battle Dance can only be used once per turn.

ELVEN BATTLE CALL
If Listaria is engaged, then all Elves that you control, except Listaria, move one additional space.

SNOW STRENGTH
Add 1 to Listaria's attack and defense while on a snow space.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

Well met!

My comments in red.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolakoski (Post 2258689)

NAME = ULLARIA, THE ICE QUEEN OF ASHRA

GENERAL = ULLAR
SPECIES = ELF
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WARRIOR
PERSONALITY = INSPIRING

SIZE/HEIGHT = LARGE 6

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 160

ASHRA'S CALL
After revealing a numbered Order marker and taking a turn with Ullaria, the Ice Queen of Ashra, if she is engaged, roll a 20-sided die. On a roll of 15 or higher, you may take a turn with one squad of the Warriors of Ashra.

FREEZING SPEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 2, Attack 3
When Ullaria, the Ice Queen of Ashra, attacks with Freezing Spear Special Attack, she may attack one additional time. If a figure receives one or more wounds from Freezing Spear Special Attack, she may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from that figure's Army Card (or cards if your opponent has more than one Common card). If the figure has no unrevealed Order Markers, it receives a Wound instead. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power roll 2 less defense dice.

WHIRLWIND ASSAULT
Ullaria, the Ice Queen of Ashra, may attack any or all figures adjacent to her. Roll each attack separately.

Tried to address loose consensus ideas - Ullar, Leader/Fighter hybrid, Spear special attack, Wolf power, movement power - in a creative, fun-to-play way.

Subjectively not satisfied with pure movement power, wanted some bite. Ashra's Call is a mashup of Commander's Strike and Bonding that is limited enough to help keep her price reasonable in light of her other powers and her stats.

Freezing Spear Special Attack plays off her double bladed spear and her assumed cold climate origins.

Whirlwind Assault is a simple way to reflect the Wolf's offensive contribution, without a separate special power, is especially appropriate for a unit that seeks engagement, and is a viable offensive alternative to Freezing Spear.

Stats reflect her armor and the Wolf's attack power. I set her speed at 6 rather than 7 or 8 as she is a bit heavier than other units with that speed, a fighter not a runner. Here's hoping 160 isn't too low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2258797)

NAME = QUEEN ASHRA

GENERAL = ULLAR
SPECIES = ELF
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WARLORD
PERSONALITY = VALIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = LARGE 6

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 180ish?

ELVEN BATTLE DANCE
Once per round, immediately after an opponent reveals an Order Marker on any Army Card they control, before they take a turn, you may move up to 3 Elf figures you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Queen Ashra up to 2 spaces each. Queen Ashra may be one of the figures moved. Figures moved by Elven Battle Dance never take leaving engagement attacks.

TRAINED TO PERFECTION
Before attacking with Queen Ashra, you may choose to either:
-attack any or all figures adjacent to Queen Ashra, rolling each attack separately; or
-add one automatic skull when attacking an adjacent figure.

ULLAR'S CALL
If Queen Ashra is engaged, add 1 to your initiative roll for each figure you control who follows Ullar within 6 spaces of Queen Ashra.

****************

Trained to Perfection is stolen from C3G, but lets her be a solid fighter in a variety of situations.
I'm still in favour of making her a Warlord as I think giving her bonding with the Armocs provides more options for the game and expands the Ullar cross-polinating synergy web that the Venoc Warlord already gives us.

Trained to Perfection is a great power for her, covering both potential hero or squad opponents and thematically does what it took me 2 powers to do. Elven Battle Dance is a consensus pure movement power whose immediately reactive timing (versus Ullar's Battle Dance) is very cool - and perhaps, at once per round, less expensive/powerful? Ullar's Call should practically guarantee Initiative early on. Basic stats nearly identical to those of my Ullaria. Very cool, thematic design. Should be fun to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale (Post 2258808)

Queen Listaria

Ullar
Elf
Unique Hero
Queen
Resolute
Large 6

Life = 5

Move = 8
Range = 1
Attack = 3
Defense = 3

POINTS = 110

ELVEN LEADERSHIP
All Elves you control, except Queen Listaria, move one additional space.

QUEEN'S STRIKE
Add 1 to Queen Listaria's attack dice for every Elf you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Queen Listaria up to a maximum of +3 dice.

If Sir Dupuis were a reasonably priced Elf leader. Flameslayer was on point. "Simplicity is very strong with Scy’s draft. Honestly all I’d add to is a Snow power and tweak the stats a bit, perhaps +1 Defense to better portray the armor for her and the wolf."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astroking112 (Post 2258816)

I'd be interested to see how Lazy Orang's Elven Battle Dance and Ullar's Call interact together in a game. It sounds like a very interesting set of powers to me (although I confess that I'm not a huge fan of Trained to Perfection).

I'm not interested in leading this project right now and will likely defer it to someone else should this draft win, but I figure that having more ideas to consider doesn't hurt. Since I haven't seen anyone use @Son of Arathorn 's Ullar's Battle Dance idea that was tossed around a bit, I figured I would use it here. I think that it has an interesting potential with a Warlord class, and it discourages taking her with Roman Legionnaires but still lets players cross Ullar synergy webs without being forced to.

-------------------------

NAME = AERENDYL
GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = ELF
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WARLORD
PERSONALITY = NOBLE
SIZE/HEIGHT = LARGE 6

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 150

ULLAR'S BATTLE DANCE
After rolling defense dice for a figure that you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Aerendyl who follows Ullar, you may move another figure that you control who follows Ullar up to 4 spaces. If a figure moving with Ullar's Battle Dance is engaged when it starts to move, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Ullar's Battle Dance can only be used once per turn.

ELVEN BATTLE CALL
If Aerendyl is engaged, then all Elves that you control, except Aerendyl, move one additional space.

A lot of movement with these powers and Warlord. Does not address Wolf/Queen offensive powers/split. Flameslayer's suggestions could be applied here as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2259157)

P.S,: Edited all of the above as I was in a rush before . . .

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

Here's my take, after some percolating.

Name: Elmarion
General: Ullar

Species: Elf
Uniqueness: Unique Hero
Class: Queen
Personality: Tricky

Size: Large 6

Life: 5
Move: 7
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
Points: ~140

Easy Prey
When Elmarion attacks an opponent's figure, if she is engaged with no figures other than the defending figure, add 3 dice to Elmarion's attack.

Ullar Field Marshal
After Elmarion or a figure you control who follows Ullar within 4 clear sight spaces of Elmarion rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure, if Elmarion is unengaged, you may move a squad figure you control who follows Ullar up to 4 spaces.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

Well met!

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Your Pie (Post 2259945)

Of what did your percolating consist of? For that matter, I wonder what everyone was thinking . . .

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolakoski (Post 2260314)

Of what did your percolating consist of? For that matter, I wonder what everyone was thinking . . .

I might be inclined to discuss my draft in more detail once I start the voting thread up, but I'm unsure how much in-depth discussion we want to do during that process. I didn't include design notes as a requirement, so I wouldn't want to disadvantage the entries of people who aren't prepared to write a detailed explanation of their draft. That said, I may be manufacturing this concern myself, so I certainly won't stop anyone from sharing their own process.

On a scheduling note, I won't be able to set up the voting thread until afternoon or evening on Wednesday. I don't see any reason not to accept entries up until that point, though naturally if you post your draft at the moment or right after I've made the poll...well that's no good, heh.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Calling for Design Drafts!

Alrighty, poll is up! Based on the number of entries, I have decided to allow each voter to vote for only two of the design drafts rather than three. Please make sure to read the first post of that thread carefully before submitting your choices.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!

Aaand we're back. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to continue using this thread for the rest of the design process. The first and second posts have undergone some revisions, and the design itself will be hosted in the second post (with both the current and original draft visible--currently they are identical, of course).

Now that we've chosen a draft, we're close to ready to move into testing, but there are some salient points that we should discuss first. Here are those points as I see them, in no particular order.

1. Figure name. Apparently Listaria is a bacteria, or something? I don't think Tornado is particularly attached to the name, so changing it shouldn't be a problem. I'm no good at fantasy elf names, so my only input here will be to mention that I don't think the word "Queen" should be used in both the figure's name and the figure's class (and for that matter, having Queen in the name but not as the class would also be weird, so it probably just shouldn't be used in the name at all). This follows both elf and queen precedent--"Sonlen" instead of "Archmage Sonlen," "Sudema" instead of "Queen Sudema." This is not a high priority though, and doesn't absolutely need to be decided on before we move into testing.

2. Class. While I'm not inclined to feel good about closing off an option completely, the design draft voting has represented a second time that warlord as a class has been rejected by vote--the top two vote-getters were non-warlord, and non-warlord classes received more votes overall. A middle ground doesn't really exist between these options, so I don't see us taking Warlord any further. Apologies to its proponents.

Since this leaves the left box stats mostly about flavor, I'll only mention briefly that those are still subject to change. Apart from Elf and Unique Hero, of course.

3. Complexity. I'll note that this draft's victory was by a very slim margin, which if I had to guess represents a dividing line between those who prefer a simple, clean design and those who want the design to add something fresh and new. Still, I think mixing and matching powers between the two would be a mistake, and bog us down in a place where the design is being pulled in two different directions--feel free to disagree, though. In general, the closeness of that vote to me represents that in the changes we make to this design, we should endeavor not to make it any more complicated than it is, if possible.

4. Snow Strength. I brought this up in my initial review of the unit, but I worry about Snow Strength needlessly inflating the cost of a unit that is sufficiently sturdy to take advantage of it. Nerak is 3/3 with 3 life, so the benefit to him is minimal, but I could see this figure getting a noticeable power bump from a snow map. This is guesswork, though, but my preference would be Snow and Ice Enhanced Movement over Snow Strength.

5. Normal vs. Special Attacks. This is largely a formality, as we have a pretty clear mandate from one of the SoV judges that I am certain the others will agree with on this. Either way, I think Ullar's Battle Dance is a lot cleaner if it only works against normal attacks--I simply haven't changed it yet because I don't want to just make changes off the cuff like that. We could also consider other tweaks to the power, if some people liked other versions better, so long as the end result doesn't get too muddy.

6. Point cost. Some other eyes and opinions on this should be helpful before we move into testing. We'll still be ballparking, but it would be nice to start testing at a pretty close value.

This is everything I can initially think of, but feel free to bring other topics up for discussion.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!

Keep in mind that if you choose Queen as a class, she'll get Crypt Guardian synergy.

Not bad, just a note.

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!

I really like this design. It hits a few of the major things that most stood out to me. A couple of comments...

1) I like Snow Strength. I think it's ok if it forces a little bump in point cost for a bit of arctic flavor amongst the elves. I don't mind having some characters fall into a bit of a niche and I don't think this would be overwhelmingly so.

2) Battle Dance is interesting and really brings something new. It feels a little overdone though in conjunction with Elven Battle Call. It feels like we should just go with one or the other. And I personally favor Elven Battle Call. The howl from the sculpt of the wolf really stands out to me and gives me visions of an elven battle call. And I like the queen leading her people into battle with it.

3) Simplicity is definitely appealing. Simplicity doesn't necessarily deny us fresh and interesting design, it's just harder to do.

I like where this is going...

Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmon (Post 2264181)

2) Battle Dance is interesting and really brings something new. It feels a little overdone though in conjunction with Elven Battle Call. It feels like we should just go with one or the other. And I personally favor Elven Battle Call. The howl from the sculpt of the wolf really stands out to me and gives me visions of an elven battle call. And I like the queen leading her people into battle with it.

I like this suggestion, and it's something I'd like to hear more views on. Either of this design's synergy powers are enough to form the center of the card, and mulling it over I do somewhat agree that having two different movement cheerleaders powers is a bit inelegant.

Any other thoughts on this?