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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred February 12th, 2013 04:19 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
THOMAS OF HUNTER
1) "For the rest of the game, Thomas Hunter may use any Power Glyph on this card as if it were a special power on his card." - The text on each of the Power Glyphs clearly state that figure holding the power gains the power. Thus, this line should be removed.

UNDERESTIMATED
A) I'd never underestimate somebody as buff and scowly as that guy in the picture :P I imagined a school teacher version of the guy from the office that is on and off boyfriend to the receptionist. :D

POINTS
2) At first glance, 130, but those are some good Power Glyphs and he can get 3 of them. 140
I have some time, let me play him and see how things go:
Thomas gets whittled down to 1 life. turn 1 of next round: attacked by squad. blow x to time out and stay alive. blow 3 to stay alive. blow 2 to stay alive. dies on turn 2 without order markers remaining to time out.

120 points. or 110.

Edit: I forgot underestimated, so he probably wouldn't have gone down that fast.
With that said, he felt like a berserker to me, not like the character I heard described.
Even though he is essentially an 8 life figure, I would prefer him to have some healing.

Life 4
"If Thomas Hunter receives enough wounds to be destroyed, you may remove an unrevealed order marker from this card and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 6 or higher, remove all wounds from this card."~

mac122 February 12th, 2013 04:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1762797)
THOMAS OF HUNTER
1) "For the rest of the game, Thomas Hunter may use any Power Glyph on this card as if it were a special power on his card." - The text on each of the Power Glyphs clearly state that figure holding the power gains the power. Thus, this line should be removed.

UNDERESTIMATED
A) I'd never underestimate somebody as buff and scowly as that guy in the picture :P I imagined a school teacher version of the guy from the office that is on and off boyfriend to the receptionist. :D

POINTS
2) At first glance, 130, but those are some good Power Glyphs and he can get 3 of them. 140
I have some time, let me play him and see how things go:
Thomas gets whittled down to 1 life. turn 1 of next round: attacked by squad. blow x to time out and stay alive. blow 3 to stay alive. blow 2 to stay alive. dies on turn 2 without order markers remaining to time out.

120 points. or 110.

Edit: I forgot underestimated, so he probably wouldn't have gone down that fast.
With that said, he felt like a berserker to me, not like the character I heard described.
Even though he is essentially an 8 life figure, I would prefer him to have some healing.

Life 4
"If Thomas Hunter receives enough wounds to be destroyed, you may remove an unrevealed order marker from this card and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 6 or higher, remove all wounds from this card."~

Good point on THOMAS OF HUNTER. I agree that bit can be removed. As far as UNDERESTIMATED, maybe it's because of his youth not his biceps? :shrug: I also imagine the publisher wouldn't have gone for a nerdy, bow-tie wearing school teacher* for the cover art on the graphic novel. ;)

We can certainly discuss adding healing and reducing the Life to 4.

* some of my best teachers were nerdy, though not many wore bow-ties. :grin:

McHotcakes February 12th, 2013 08:28 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I agree with Confred about 4 life plus healing.

As for Underestimated I feel like Thomas should only get the extra attack and defense die for every Power glyph, and not every treasure glyph. I feel like somebody wouldn't underestimate if he was holding a rifle, but they would if he were to take a nap and all of a sudden learned a whole new set of fighting abilities.

Lamaclown February 12th, 2013 08:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 1762972)
As for Underestimated I feel like Thomas should only get the extra attack and defense die for every Power glyph, and not every treasure glyph. I feel like somebody wouldn't underestimate if he was holding a rifle, but they would if he were to take a nap and all of a sudden learned a whole new set of fighting abilities.

Good catch, McH. I would agree with that.

mac122 February 12th, 2013 09:13 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
LC - since we're not done after all, why don't you post a draft with any of these suggestions you think fit.

Lamaclown February 13th, 2013 08:00 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1763006)
LC - since we're not done after all, why don't you post a draft with any of these suggestions you think fit.

Actually...
After thinking about it and going back to the books, the Treasure Glyphs will work fine with Underestimated. In the book, Carlos, the main antagonist and assassin in this reality, underestimated Thomas several times when Thomas had a weapon because Carlos knew Thomas had no weapons experience or training. So, his opponents did still underestimate him even when he was armed.

Sorry for the back and forth... :oops:

mac122 February 13th, 2013 09:09 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1763163)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1763006)
LC - since we're not done after all, why don't you post a draft with any of these suggestions you think fit.

Actually...
After thinking about it and going back to the books, the Treasure Glyphs will work fine with Underestimated. In the book, Carlos, the main antagonist and assassin in this reality, underestimated Thomas several times when Thomas had a weapon because Carlos knew Thomas had no weapons experience or training. So, his opponents did still underestimate him even when he was armed.

Sorry for the back and forth... :oops:

What about lowering the Life to 4 and adding healing into Time Out?

Lamaclown February 13th, 2013 09:52 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think the card as is will work wonderfully with the wording change proposed by Confred. Right now, Time Out is nice and simple. I would like to forego full theme in favor of mechanics on this one. So, just so everything is clear...

Quote:

Thomas Hunter
Jandar
Human
Unique Hero
Protector
Resolute
Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2
Points 130

THOMAS OF HUNTER
Begin the game with 5 Power Glyphs, power-side up, next to this card. Whenever Thomas Hunter successfully uses his Time Out special power, choose a Power Glyph and place it on this Army Card, up to a maximum of 3 Power Glyphs. Add 1 die to Thomas Hunter's attack and defense for each Power Glyph on this card.

UNDERESTIMATED
If there is at least 1 Treasure glyph or Power Glyph on this card, opponent's figures roll 1 less attack die when attacking Thomas Hunter with a normal attack.

TIME OUT
If Thomas Hunter receives enough wounds to be destroyed, you may remove an unrevealed order marker from this card and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 6 or higher, ignore any wounds just received.
It is exactly the same as what mac has on the card already minus the extra language that was in Thomas of Hunter that Confred pointed out.

mac122 February 13th, 2013 10:10 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1763202)
I think the card as is will work wonderfully with the wording change proposed by Confred. Right now, Time Out is nice and simple. I would like to forego full theme in favor of mechanics on this one. So, just so everything is clear...

Quote:

Thomas Hunter
Jandar
Human
Unique Hero
Protector
Resolute
Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2
Points 130

THOMAS OF HUNTER
Begin the game with 5 Power Glyphs, power-side up, next to this card. Whenever Thomas Hunter successfully uses his Time Out special power, choose a Power Glyph and place it on this Army Card, up to a maximum of 3 Power Glyphs. Add 1 die to Thomas Hunter's attack and defense for each Power Glyph on this card.

UNDERESTIMATED
If there is at least 1 Treasure glyph or Power Glyph on this card, opponent's figures roll 1 less attack die when attacking Thomas Hunter with a normal attack.

TIME OUT
If Thomas Hunter receives enough wounds to be destroyed, you may remove an unrevealed order marker from this card and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 6 or higher, ignore any wounds just received.
It is exactly the same as what mac has on the card already minus the extra language that was in Thomas of Hunter that Confred pointed out.

Sounds good. Why don't we leave Time Out as it is for now and change the point cost to 120? If a few more people playtest Thomas and find he is too easily defeated without healing, then we can revisit Confred's suggestion.

Lamaclown February 13th, 2013 10:26 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1763213)
Sounds good. Why don't we leave Time Out as it is for now and change the point cost to 120? If a few more people playtest Thomas and find he is too easily defeated without healing, then we can revisit Confred's suggestion.

:thumbsup:

Confred February 13th, 2013 01:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Without healing, he might be closer to 110 points

For THOMAS OF HUNTER, do we want the Power Glyph selection to potentially choose multiple of the same power? It's not relevant now, but if Power Glyphs are revisited later, he'll have access to those. And some of those might become more powerful in multiple.
I don't see an issue, because it's within theme of him bettering himself based on the situation.
"Begin the game with 5 different Power Glyphs... "
is "..., power-side up,..." necessary since they don't have to be different?
I can see the argument for symbol-side up, to increase tactical strength. In the book, the opponents aren't expecting him to learn new things on the fly. In reality, the opponent knows Thomas will learn, but with this tweak the experience could compare to the book, because the selection of what Thomas will learn will* still be unexpected.
Which leads me to, if "symbol-side up" is rejected and there isn't a particular reason to have power-side up, could we leave it out altogether?
"Begin the game with 5 Power Glyphs next to this card."

mac122 February 15th, 2013 02:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm OK with using "symbol-side up", but is it that big a deal that your opponent would know the pool of powers you'll choose from? I think leaving it out all together is a good choice.

Anyone else have a feel for the points? Confred suggests 110. I could see 120 because of his potential, but we could go with 110 for now.


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