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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Lamaclown July 15th, 2010 08:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1145500)
In a game vs. Undead, Simon more than justifies his points, but in any other match-up, he is like a Sir Denrick with a range boost but without bonding, +2 attack vs. Huge or Coward's Reward. His survivability is identical. I would put him at 90 points. He is highly draftable in a vs. Undead army, but he can be taken down easily enough by Zombie Horde, and is still vulnerable to Chilling Touch.

I think that is a pretty good assessment, TW.

Nice job, jcmcminis! I think his special ability rather than a special attack is a good direction to go.

JC McMinis July 15th, 2010 08:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1145642)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1145500)
In a game vs. Undead, Simon more than justifies his points, but in any other match-up, he is like a Sir Denrick with a range boost but without bonding, +2 attack vs. Huge or Coward's Reward. His survivability is identical. I would put him at 90 points. He is highly draftable in a vs. Undead army, but he can be taken down easily enough by Zombie Horde, and is still vulnerable to Chilling Touch.

I think that is a pretty good assessment, TW.

Nice job, jcmcminis! I think his special ability rather than a special attack is a good direction to go.

Glad you like it, I tought initiative bonus rather than movment bonus was a better assessment at sensing undead.

Edit: Also thinking I should raise his attack to 4

Hrockle July 15th, 2010 09:25 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

JC McMinis July 15th, 2010 09:55 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1145711)
Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

No what Tablewalker was saying is that he is not overpowered. Simon does not actually have any resistance to undead attacks, that why I did not give him any.

A3n July 15th, 2010 09:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).

If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
  • First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
  • So for the Brainstorming stage.
    • Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
    • If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
    • Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
    • The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
  • Draft Stage.
    • Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
    • Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
    • If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
  • Voting Stage.
    • Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
  • Carding Stage.
    • PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
  • HAVE FUN!!!

& best of luck guys.

Cheers

Taeblewalker July 15th, 2010 09:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmcminis (Post 1145670)
Edit: Also thinking I should raise his attack to 4

That alone raises his cost at least 10 points.

It might be overpowered with the doubled skulls, even though it only works against Undead. If he has height advantage with his bonus range, and he is effectively Attack 10. You might:

A) Give him an auto skull like Sharwin, but only against Undead. This affects both heroes and squads. His cost should not be affected by this change, outside of the raising it already for the Attack of 4.

B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1145711)
Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

Perhaps he can cause an opponent to subtract 1 from a die when rolling for an Undead figure to use a power on him. That hurts both Chilling Touch and Soul Devour. Marcu is irrelevant, since Eternal Hatred is not used against any figure. This can bring his cost up 5 points or so.

Hidicul July 15th, 2010 10:04 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tablewalker
B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.

I like this idea TW, it's simple and has the potental to be leathal. Granted it's usless against squads, but with a nice attack and possable height how long are squad figures going to last?

Taeblewalker July 15th, 2010 10:30 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hidicul (Post 1145778)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tablewalker
B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.

I like this idea TW, it's simple and has the potental to be leathal. Granted it's usless against squads, but with a nice attack and possable height how long are squad figures going to last?

The more I think about it, Attack 4 seems like a good match for a guy who is a major protagonist in a video game. He becomes pretty useful in any army build, though perhaps a little costly at 95-100 points.

The extra wound against Undead heroes puts him in the category of Brandis against fliers, but with fewer targets. The combined changes let him be more generally badass in any army, while still keeping the Vampire Killer theme going. He also is good against Sudema, by the way.

Hidicul July 15th, 2010 11:10 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A3n (Post 1145763)
Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).


If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
  • First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
  • So for the Brainstorming stage.
    • Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
    • If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
    • Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
    • The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
  • Draft Stage.
    • Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
    • Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
    • If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
  • Voting Stage.
    • Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
  • Carding Stage.
    • PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
  • HAVE FUN!!!
& best of luck guys.

Cheers

Well since no one else has said anythingabout this I will. I agree with A3N on all points. I think it may be a little late to implement the one post being updated for this design, but I think it is something that needs to be considered for the next design. As for a time limit on voting, I think going with C3G's standard 48 hours would fit the bill here.

Lamaclown July 15th, 2010 11:31 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hidicul (Post 1145929)
Quote:

Originally Posted by A3n (Post 1145763)
Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).



If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
  • First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
  • So for the Brainstorming stage.
    • Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
    • If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
    • Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
    • The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
  • Draft Stage.
    • Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
    • Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
    • If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
  • Voting Stage.
    • Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
  • Carding Stage.
    • PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
  • HAVE FUN!!!
& best of luck guys.

Cheers

Well since no one else has said anythingabout this I will. I agree with A3N on all points. I think it may be a little late to implement the one post being updated for this design, but I think it is something that needs to be considered for the next design. As for a time limit on voting, I think going with C3G's standard 48 hours would fit the bill here.

I agree that A3n has some sage advice in this post. Thanks, A3n!

JC McMinis July 15th, 2010 11:50 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
Ok here is the newest draft.
1) I raised his attack to 4.
2) Changed Vampire killer whip to undead hunter, It now is sort of a compound power in that you add an additional skull, but also intergrates the defense against d-20 rolls.
3)Sense Undead, someone suggested earlier that this would allow him to be able to do leaving attacks against those with slealth flying, I intergrated this into him as well.
What do you think now?

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Undead Hunter
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If an undead figure uses an ability on Simon that requires a D20 roll, you may subtract 1 from that roll.

Sense Undead
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card. Simon may take a leaving engagement attack against all undead figure.


Points: ???

Hidicul July 15th, 2010 11:53 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction Thread
 
not bad,but I still think he should have a SA that effects un-Undead figures though.


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