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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Taeblewalker December 30th, 2010 09:45 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Much has been said, so I will summarize my thoughts.

I agree with speed 6.
I agree that being a Unique Squad means he doesn't need to limit the number of Smiths that can exist at one time. The limit is 4.
Khosumet is not an issue.
Nix the Counter Strike idea. It doesn't really fit. Just plain Stealth Dodge is fine.
I am not too keen on Flying, but maybe Stealth Leap. Wordiness becomes an issue, though. I don't really remember him flying in the movies, but I might just be blanking on it.
I also like KC's analysis in the spoiler. If we plan on doing regular agents, then we should probably reserve the Order Marker power for them. I don't yet know what Smith should have, though, but it's worth wracking our brains to think of something that doesn't seem to fit a plugged-in agent better.

killercactus December 30th, 2010 09:54 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Smith can definitely fly. About 3/4 of the final battle in Revolutions was in the air.

Remember - he's the machine version of Neo. He can do whatever Neo can, except feel human emotions. The reason he feels that he has to replicate himself (at least my understanding of it - the Matrix really isn't an easy series to understand) is because Neo loves Trinity. The love forces Neo's emotions to be stronger for Trinity than for the rest of human existence, and unbalances the equation. Since Smith can't feel love, he keeps copying himself to try and match the strength to balance it, and goes out of control.

I don't have any other ideas for Unplugged at this point, though I'm thinking about it.

Balantai December 30th, 2010 11:45 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
A few comments:
  • No symbols. We're looking to have this project 100% compatible with Vahallascape.
  • I can see adding Flying to his card, but we'll need to drop something. The text for flying is many much.
  • I'm not sure I like Program, but I'm not sure what else he could be.
  • Move should be increased to 6.
  • I don't think he should have range. I could be wrong, but doesn't Agent Smith mostly just punch in the second and thrid movies? I think I'd like to see him as a melee figure.
  • If we remove his range, I'd like to see his attack raised to 4.
  • For Replication Subroutine, is it thematic to have to have Agent Smith destroy the figure in order to replicate? Why not just let him do it at the end of every round or whenever any figure is destroyed. Just tie it to a d20 roll.
  • I'm not completely sold on Unplugged. I'm not sure how to change it or even if we need to, but it just seems a bit off theme-wise.
  • I'd like to see Stealth Dodge changed from a "non-adjacent" trigger to a "normal attack" trigger. In other words, allow Agent Smith to counter any normal attack with 1 shield. But maybe limit it so that he can't ever roll more than 3 dice.
These are just my opinions. :D

killercactus December 30th, 2010 12:14 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
That's a good point about being melee - I can't seem to remember a single time that he actually used a gun in the 2nd or 3rd movies. I agree that a melee attack of 4 is good.

If he doesn't have Flying, I think his movement should actually be 7. I'm pretty sure he's still faster than Brandis Skyhunter, for instance. 6 with Flying would be fine.

For Replication - Smith definitely has to destroy the figure. He had to do that thing where he sticks his hand into someone to copy himself.

If he's a melee figure, then I'm all for changing Stealth Dodge to something that affects all attacks, and I think he should get it against Specials, too. Personally, I *HATE* when stuff vital to a figure's survivability is limited to normal attacks. Especially a Unique Squad (tear for the Ninjas of the Northern Wind). I'd hate to have Q9 gun down all 4 Smith's in one turn because, for whatever reason, Queglix bullets are way harder to dodge than regular ones, unless its necessary to balance the figure (screw you, Deathreavers).

I wanted to call him an "Anomaly" instead of "Program" originally, but then I remember that Neo called him a Program when he tells the Machine Source about him at the end of Revolution, so I think Program is OK.

Pumpkin_King December 30th, 2010 01:13 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Thoughts:

Flying with 6 or 7 with not sounds fine to me.

Turning him melee was something I was thinking about today anyways; that sounds good, and is a way to keep his points down if we give him Flying. I'll bump up his attack to 4 next draft, and that will cover hand-to-hand abilities.

Your arguments have swayed me on Unplugged. I'm not sure myself what it should be. Maybe something where he activates randomly after your regular turns, as if acting of his own accord?

Spoiler Alert!

Lamaclown December 30th, 2010 01:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
If you are looking for Smith to "act" outside of the norm of the program on his own accord how about something like...

Quote:

UNPLUGGED

At the end of the round, you may reveal the X Order Marker on this card and roll the 20 sided die.
  • If you roll a 3 or lower choose an opponent. That opponent may take 1 turn with Agent Smith.
  • If you roll a 4-X, nothing happens.
  • If you roll a X+1 or higher you may take 1 turn with Agent Smith.
Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith on the battlefield that you control.

With this he is acting outside the normal parameters of Order Markers and even of the parameters of the player who controls him.

killercactus December 30th, 2010 01:59 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I really like that, Lamaclown. It's going to take up a lot of space on the card though, so I think we should leave Flying off if we do that. Maybe jump bump his move to 7 then?

Balantai December 30th, 2010 02:45 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
We could always simplify it even further:

At the start of each player's turn, before Order Markers are revealed, you may reveal the X Order Marker on this card and take an immediate turn with Agent Smith.

I'm not sure what theme is for having your opponent take a turn with Agent Smith.

Lamaclown December 30th, 2010 03:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1303929)
We could always simplify it even further:

At the start of each player's turn, before Order Markers are revealed, you may reveal the X Order Marker on this card and take an immediate turn with Agent Smith.

I'm not sure what theme is for having your opponent take a turn with Agent Smith.

I was trying to get across the idea of Smith bucking the Source and doing his own thing (the player who controls Smith being the Source in this instance).

killercactus December 30th, 2010 03:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1303952)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1303929)
We could always simplify it even further:

At the start of each player's turn, before Order Markers are revealed, you may reveal the X Order Marker on this card and take an immediate turn with Agent Smith.

I'm not sure what theme is for having your opponent take a turn with Agent Smith.

I was trying to get across the idea of Smith bucking the Source and doing his own thing (the player who controls Smith being the Source in this instance).

But then, if the opponent takes a turn with Smith, can he start attacking himself?

And what happens when he kills himself? Does he copy himself onto himself?

I think it might just be cleaner to allow the player to take turns with him, even though it would be a way to keep his points down if he had an "Eternal Hatred" type thing.

Lamaclown December 30th, 2010 04:02 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 1303969)
But then, if the opponent takes a turn with Smith, can he start attacking himself?

I think it might just be cleaner to allow the player to take turns with him, even though it would be a way to keep his points down if he had an "Eternal Hatred" type thing.

I am definitely good with that...

Quote:

UNPLUGGED
At the end of the round, you may reveal the X Order Marker on this card and roll the 20 sided die.
  • If you roll an X or lower, nothing happens.
  • If you roll a X+1 or higher you may take 1 turn with Agent Smith.
Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith on the battlefield that you control.

Taeblewalker December 30th, 2010 07:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I agree to keep it simple. As far as Replicate goes, how about a simple D20 roll against an adjacent small or medium figure - 7 for a squad figure, 17 for a hero? This modified "water clone" makes him very deadly, and is thematic. It can only be done if at least one Agent Smith is dead.

Keep Stealth Dodge like the Krav; i.e., works vs. specials.


Life 1 (4 figures)
Move 7
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 3


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