Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like the latest design. I have no criticisms to offer.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok here is the card as it stands.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psyah5n6iy.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like the current version of the card. I know this guy is supposed to be awesome. The only concern I have at this time is the 6 life with 7 defense on water. This guy will not even need his regenerate ability. I would think you would want a chance to actually use the abilities on the card. If you dropped the defense by 1, he still has above normal stats for defense, and can still regenerate on water If you camped this guy on water he would not die. Overall, I would drop the defense by 1 and call it good, just for the reason that he does get hurt in the movies quite often. Most of the time just to regenerate it back. At this point he is less likely to even take a wound from most normal squad figures at all unless he does a death walker whiff. Unless that is what you guys are going for. I like the rest of the card, it looks good.

Edits
 

SON OF POSEIDON
If Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 1 to his Attack and Defense. If Percy Jackson is on a water space, add 2 to his Attack and Defense. Percy Jackson does not have to stop his movement when entering water. After taking a turn with Percy Jackson, if he is on a water space, you may remove a wound marker from this Army Card.

HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the range and attack of Hydrokinesis Special Attack. If a small or medium figure receives one or more wounds from Hydrokinesis Special Attack but is not destroyed, roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 14 or higher, you may place that figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of its original placement. Figures moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

GREEK TRAINING
If Percy Jackson destroy's an opponents figure with a normal attack, he may attack one additional time with a normal attack.

Still making sure we have all of our stuff in the right place for the Special Attack. If we use Percy Jackson, the general rule is to use Percy Jackson everywhere. If we use Percy, the general rule is to use Percy everywhere. The one exception is Sgt. Drake Alexander who uses Sgt. Drake Alexander during the first part of Grapple Gun, Drake throughout the rest of it and Sgt. Drake Alexander for the rest of the card.

~Dysole, who'll stop in again later

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

This looks awesome as is. My only complaints are

1. Greek Training seems like a weird name, but I can't come up with a different name.

2. He's probably well over 175 points

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I agree with this.

Hero Training? He is a Greek Hero after all.

I'm with you on this one.

Options
 

How about GREEK MILITARY TRAINING?

TREX's complaints are well founded. As he stands he is favored against TWENTY Knights of Weston while on a water space. Dropping him down to 4 life makes it 50/50 between him and 16 Knights. (Although admittedly 6 Minions are slightly favored)

At 6 life he is favored against Jotun (pretty handily), Krug (barely), Fen Hydra (easily), and Charos (easily) on water. At 5 life he matches up against them like so: Jotun (Jotun favored but not by a lot), Krug (50/50), Fen Hydra (easily wins), Charos (easily wins). At 4 life: Jotun (Jotun pretty handily), Krug (Krug pretty handily), Fen Hydra (Percy pretty handily), Charos (Percy pretty handily)

So, what I'm seeing is that he needs a price bump and probably a life drop. If he stays at the current stats I'm thinking 250 is the minimum. With a life drop, I'd be comfortable with 210.

~Dysole, figuring if a demigod isn't worth 200+ points they aren't much of a demigod are they?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok here is another updated card. I dropped his life and defense by 1 and increased his points to 200

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...pski5tz2aa.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

He's a beast, but I like where the card stands now reflecting the raised points and adjusted stats. He feels a bit more balanced(can actually be killed) now.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Would Hal-Blood Training be a reasonable name? That is where he was trained right?

Re: Options
 

I'm curious how you did this analysis. Do you have some software or algorithm for the comparisons?

Software To Go
 

One of the greatest tools ever. Admittedly for this, I gave him double attack against squads since that seemed reasonable with seven attack.

Also destroys should not have an apostrophe in Greek Combat Training.

~Dysole, a fan of Greek Military/Comcast Training or Half Blood Training

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

How about this
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psj9yoccan.jpg

So Close
 

Get rid of the apostrophe in destroys in Camp Half Blood Training and I'm good with it.

~Dysole, collaborating

Re: So Close
 

I'm no english expert, but wouldn't you also add an apostrophe in the word opponent's in that same line.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like Half-Blood Training, or something similar at least.

Edit: not Camp Half Blood Training. It's too long IMO.

Re: So Close
 

TREX is correct.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok updated card with corrected punctuation...are we ready to put it to the vote?
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...pszlmdgnt6.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm new to designing with you guys, do you do any testing with the unit before passing it off? If not, I think a vote would be okay. If so, with the changes,:thumbsup: from me.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

There's never really been a rule requiring play testing before passing a unit. I usually try to run a couple play tests myself just to make sure the points are right but I haven't had a chance with Percy.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I have quite a list, but I'm super excited for what I've got in store.
With the Percy Jackson inspiration, I bumped him up the list.:D

Curiosity
 

Since I'm two away, how far reaching are we looking here? I have some far reaching tastes.

~Dysole, mulling a couple options (and obviously have the already made Avatar: Last Airbender and Fullmetal Alchemist cards in my thread and have a couple Code Geass and Doctor Who ones in progress)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm up for pretty much anything. But I think we need to be realistic. There are some characters who can't be captured right without symbols and would work better as superscape or maybe their own project altogether.

Agreed
 

Yes. All the ones (minus maybe Doctor Who) I mentioned are better suited for C3G and almost as their own project so I wasn't planning on any of them. Is there a limit on how well know the figure should be?

~Dysole, who has one idea but it would probably require a couple cards (or incredibly intensive treasure glyphs) to go with it

Re: Agreed
 

Not at all. I actually like more obscure characters. It gives us a chance to spread the word for a series that we love but others may not know about.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That card is worth more than 200 points.

I need to research this more but should Son Of Poseidon read something closer to " add 1 .... add 2 instead" ? Basically should the word "instead" be in there somewhere? I'm not on my PC or else I'd hit up the Books to see if there is precedence.

Precedents of the United States
 

Here's what I found.

Shiori has a differing number of attack die based upon the size of the figure she is attacking. Both are listed out separately. There is no instead.

Dwarven strategic bonding lists both options. No instead.

Everyone with Wait then Fire has no instead.

Hide in Darkness lists both terrain d20 bonuses. There is no instead.

Current wording of Water Elemental is

While a Water Elemental is on a water space...

All matchups are assuming Percy is on a water space.

210 points of Knights is close. (Percy favored)

210 points of 4th is also closeish (Percy favored)

Jotun is favored.

Krug is favored

Fen Hydra is not favored

Charos is not favored

~Dysole, unsure of any other similarities that exist

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole , that calculator thing is sweeeet.
EDIT: I popped in one less attack on percy's end of things in the calculator, and the win percentage fell a little more even, against 210 points worth of knights.

Re: Agreed
 

[quote=Dysole;2021381] Not at all, several of the characters that have already passed have been that way. For example I had never heard of Thomas Hunter or Corwin when we did them. I also beleive several people has not heard of Tanis Half-Elven when I suggested him. The main thing we agreed on in the begining I do believe is that we would not do anything that another 'official' group was doing. Therefore no Star Wars, Superheroes, Lord of the Rings etc.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Anyhow back to Percy. I think what Confred is thinking about with the 'instead' thing is what he saw on our card for one of Tanis Half-Elven's abilities.

WYRMSLAYER
When Tanis Half-Elven attacks an adjacent figure, add 2 dice to his attack. If the adjacent figure is a dragon, add 4 dice instead.

But I do not think that applies in the Son of Poseidon situation.

So...
 

I think we need to change Son of Poseidon to the following.

SON OF POSEIDON
While Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 1 to his Attack and Defense. While Percy Jackson is on a water space, add 2 to his Attack and Defense. Percy Jackson does not have to stop his movement when entering water. After taking a turn with Percy Jackson, if he is on a water space, you may remove a wound marker from this Army Card.

Otherwise, we need to decide if we're good with those matchup results or if we need to drop stats or boost price.

~Dysole, thinking we're near the end here

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think he's good with a price boost.
(Also removing camp from Camp half blood training. The name is just too long as is. It's a mouthful.)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I agree, would you guys be against trying him in the 210-220 range. Using Dysole's calculator thing kind of gives you the idea that the sweet spot would be somewhere between 210 points of knights and Jotun 220. I think he could evenly match Jotun while on water, if not beat him. But maybe lose to him, not around water. So at least a 10 point, to maybe a 20 point boost on points. With that, you could leave his stats alone. Any wording issues you guys want to do are fine as well, that's not as much up my alley.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I kind of like "Camp" being there because it nods where the training comes from, implying "Camp Half-Blood" is a proper noun

I prefer him closer to 240

Is the 20-sided die roll really necessary for Hydrokinesis?
What if the throw portion of Hydrokinesis triggered off rolling at least 1 skull (wound or no) but not destroying? That way squad figures could be thrown?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Good idea!

Credit
 

The calculator is not mine. It was made by mathguy. I just know how to use it.

~Dysole, who would love to have built that but only has a much smaller version in a personal spreadsheet

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok updated card. Points raised to 240, D20 roll removed from Hydrokenisis and one bit added to Hydrokenisis that we may have forgot about...ie what if Percy moves someone over the edge of a cliff.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psxtuvg1jl.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Looks good, I would change the wording on the last bit to. Figures moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack do not take any leaving engagement attacks and will take falling damage. I think the "if necessary", is unnecessary:). I like this version better, because hes guaranteed to get to throw them, and the points reflect his awesomeness better.

I Like To Move Move It
 

You'll probably want this instead.

takes no leaving engagement attacks. Non flying figures moved lower by Hydrokinesis Special Attack can receive any falling damage that may apply.

I'm also hesitant about auto movement. It's super powerful and has the potential to cause him to knock people in lava. Even without lava, it's fairly potent although at least we have the restriction of small medium and wounding. I still feel leery.

~Dysole, who thinks we might be close to done though

Re: I Like To Move Move It
 

1) The water makes the wings soggy and the force of the water finishes the deal, thus flying figures should still be affected. I disagree with the restriction and increased complication.

2) Tactical Switch doesn't require a 20-sided roll. I dislike extra hoops. If we add the 20-sided requirement back, I'd like to suggest making the effort more worthwhile:

HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK (v1)
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the range and attack of his Hydrokinesis Special Attack. If a small or medium figure receives one or more wounds from Percy Jackson's Hydrokinesis Special Attack but is not destroyed, you may place that figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of its original placement. Figures moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack are never attacked for leaving an engagement and will take any falling damage.
-
HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK (v2)
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the range and attack of his Hydrokinesis Special Attack. When attacking small or medium figures and at least 1 skull is rolled and the chosen figure isn't destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, you may place that figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of its original placement. Figures moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack are never attacked for leaving an engagement and will take any falling damage.
-
HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK (v3)
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the range, attack, and 20-sided die roll of his Hydrokinesis Special Attack. When attacking small or medium figures, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 14 or higher, move that figure up to 2 spaces. Figures moved with Hydrokinesis Special Attack are never attacked for leaving an engagement and will take any falling damage.

3) Indeed, he feels close to completion

Re: I Like To Move Move It
 

I'm liking this version of Hydrokinesis. Just a few thoughts though.

I don't think we have to specify that it is his Hydrokinesis.

Again I don't think we need to reference that it is Percy's special attack.

I just think this wording flows a little better.

Other than that I think he is looking good.

EDIT: Also OT. Will Mac be able to give JC the ability to edit the OP in the display thread?

Research
 

On the phone so it's more difficult for me to research via the Books, but I'm not confident your preferred wording is official. I vaguely remember looking it up for Captain Jack's Parley.

Here We Are
 

Shurrak's Knockback has this wording.

When a small or medium figure rolls defense dice and is not destroyed by a normal or special attack from Shurrak, immediately roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, you may Knockback the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Shurrak. The space must be on the same level or lower than its current location. A figure moved by Knockback never takes any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower by Knockback can take any falling damage that may apply.

It's where I've been pulling a lot of my inspiration for the Hydrokinesis Special Attack.

~Dysole, giving you something

Re: Research
 

Edit: Ninja'd!

Just go with what Dysole said

Re: Here We Are
 

After reading Shurrak: A figure moved by Hydrokinesis never takes any leaving engagement attacks and can take any falling damage that may apply.
(Still on the phone, maybe tomorrow I'll type up a (v4) based on Shurrak.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Do we have a consensus on point cost, and wording for Percy Jackson? I think we should have everybody throw in the final thoughts on this guy, get a version of the card produced from those thoughts, and take a vote.( I myself am happy with the card with all of your modifications, I was only concerned with the point value.)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

How about
Do we want flying figures affected by falling damage? I have no problem thinking the water hit them so hard they had trouble avoiding the ground.

How do we feel about the name for Camp Half-Blood Training? I know that some of you thought that dropping camp from the name would clean up the card a little. If we take a vote on it then I would say drop the Camp from the name of the power.

Also for points I think 240 is definitely in the right ballpark, but I have a feeling it might be a tinsy bit too much. I haven't had a chance to playtest Percy though so I could be wrong on that.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

1) Yes. We save card space by keeping the restrictions trim and it can be argued that water makes wings soggy etc etc

2) I'm fine for it because it sounds like a proper noun; ps: what was the official name of the camp that they trained at? would that be better?

3) After seeing Shurrak, his points do seem a little high. But with his regeneration, I'd rather err towards more costly than too cheap.

SON OF POSEIDON
After looking at Shurrak some more, Shurrak's Lava Resistant special power reads "...and he does not have to stop on molten lava spaces."
Thus I think we can save some words on Percy Jackson's Army Card: "Percy Jackson does not have to stop on water spaces."

HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Using Shurrak's Knockback as a template, here are some rewordings:

HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK (v4) {Shurrak}
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the Range and Attack of Hydrokinesis Special Attack. When a small or medium figure rolls defense dice and is not destroyed, immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, you may place the figure on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Percy Jackson. A figure moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack never takes any leaving engagement attacks. Any figure moved lower by Hydrokinesis Special Attack can receive any falling damage that may apply.
-

HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK (v4.2) {Shurrak} {No 20-sided}
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the Range and Attack of Hydrokinesis Special Attack. When a small or medium figure rolls defense dice and is not destroyed, you may immediately place the figure on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Percy Jackson. A figure moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack never takes any leaving engagement attacks. Any figure moved lower by Hydrokinesis Special Attack can receive any falling damage that may apply.
-
HYDROKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK (v4.2.2) {Shurrak} {No 20-sided} {Condensed}
Range 2+Special. Attack 2+Special.
When Percy Jackson is within 3 spaces of a water space, add 2 to the Range and Attack of Hydrokinesis Special Attack. When a small or medium figure rolls defense dice and is not destroyed, you may immediately place the figure on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Percy Jackson. A figure moved by Hydrokinesis Special Attack never takes any leaving engagement attacks and can receive any falling damage that may apply.