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-   -   HS army "waterfall" (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=26097)

dok July 21st, 2009 09:16 PM

HS army "waterfall"
 
I first brought this up in the "beat my army" thread, but it seems like a cool thought experiment and I wonder how far others can stretch it.

I'm defining a "waterfall" series of armies this way:
  • Each army in the waterfall costs strictly less than the army before it. If the first army costs 500, the next one costs 495 or less.
  • In a match between two experienced and equally strong players, you would expect each army to defeat the one before it at least 60% of the time.

In my attempt, I added two more restrictions:
  • In a match between two experienced and equally strong players, you would expect each army to lose to all armies more than one spot above it at least 60% of the time.
  • I attempted to avoid reusing figures. (The Deathreavers appear in two armies, however.)

Starting at 490, I managed a 13 army waterfall:
  1. 280 4th Mass x4
    210 Charos
    490

  2. 120 Deathreavers x3
    110 Laglor
    100 Krav Maga Agents
    120 Nakita Agents
    450

  3. 150 Cyprien Esenwein
    45 Sonya Esenwein
    210 Braxas
    405

  4. 400 Deathstalkers x4
    400

  5. 200 Omnicron Snipers x2
    160 Omnicron Repulsors x4
    360

  6. 300 Zombies x5
    300

  7. 270 Marrden Hounds x3
    270

  8. 60 Blastarons
    160 Gladiatrons x2
    220

  9. 180 Ashigaru Harqebus x3
    180

  10. 40 Deathreavers
    130 DW8k
    170

  11. 80 Blade Gruts x2
    50 Nerak
    130

  12. 120 Tagawa Samurai
    120

  13. 50 Marro Warriors
    50

Starting at 500, what's the longest waterfall you can manage, with or without the two extra restrictions?

scottishlad5 July 21st, 2009 09:55 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Waterfall, does that have to do anything with the reference "waterfall" in Bill and teds excellent adventure?
Anyway neat idea, I have played a similar army to your second one and it performed greatly, I want to try that deathstalkersx4 one sometime too.

gorthan313 July 21st, 2009 11:38 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Wow. I'll have to try this!

roostertail9000 July 22nd, 2009 01:33 AM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Neat stuff, I'll try it.

rouby44 July 22nd, 2009 03:58 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dok (Post 876649)
  1. 40 Deathreavers
    130 DW8k
    170
  2. 80 Blade Gruts x2
    50 Nerak
    130

Very nice. The above link is the only one in the chain I'm not certain about. If DW8k is rolling well he could mow through a lot of Gruts before succumbing to their attacks of 2. Roman Legos x2 plus Me-Burq-Sa might work, but would struggle more with the rats. What about Heavy Gruts x2 with no champion?

killercactus July 22nd, 2009 04:43 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
I'm gonna give this a shot....

Gladiatrons x3 - 240
Blastatrons x3 - 420
Raelin - 500

loses to...

4th Mass x5 - 350
Alastair - 460
Eldgrim - 490

loses to...

Q9 - 180
Laglor - 290
Raelin - 370
Krav - 470

loses to....

Protectors x3 - 330
Atlaga - 420
Guilty - 450

loses to....

Braxas - 210
Cyprien - 360
Sonya - 405

loses to...

Deathstalkers x4 - 400

loses to....

10th Regiment of Foot x4 - 300

loses to...

Deathwalker 8000 - 130
Deathreavers x4 - 290 (this is tough....)

loses to....

Repulsors x4 - 160
Zetacron - 240

loses to....

Nilfheim - 185
Isamu - 195 (this is a tough one, but I think they can get it done)

loses to....

Krug - 120

loses to...

Warriors of Ashra x2 - 100

loses to...

Marro Warriors - 50

dok July 22nd, 2009 05:07 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rouby44 (Post 877110)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dok (Post 876649)
  1. 40 Deathreavers
    130 DW8k
    170
  2. 80 Blade Gruts x2
    50 Nerak
    130

Very nice. The above link is the only one in the chain I'm not certain about. If DW8k is rolling well he could mow through a lot of Gruts before succumbing to their attacks of 2. Roman Legos x2 plus Me-Burq-Sa might work, but would struggle more with the rats. What about Heavy Gruts x2 with no champion?

Here is the simulation that convinced me the gruts would get it done. I just assume Nerak stays in range and gives them 3 defense. That's not a perfect assumption, but with an average of 6.2 survivors, I think they can win fairly consistently and clean up the rats.

Heavy Gruts x2 are even better, of course, but they give the Tagawa Samurai more than they can handle.

dok July 22nd, 2009 05:23 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 877145)
Protectors x3 - 330
Atlaga - 420
Guilty - 450

loses to....

Braxas - 210
Cyprien - 360
Sonya - 405

loses to...

Deathstalkers x4 - 400

Are you trying to do the "loses to everything two above or higher? Because I think I'd take 12 robodogs over 9 protectors and 2 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 877145)
10th Regiment of Foot x4 - 300

loses to...

Deathwalker 8000 - 130
Deathreavers x4 - 290 (this is tough....)

Gets it done. I had to go 2 squads of each because the calculator crashes for any more than that. But the point is, as long as you make them go through the rats, DW8k wins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 877145)
Repulsors x4 - 160
Zetacron - 240

loses to....

Nilfheim - 185
Isamu - 195 (this is a tough one, but I think they can get it done)

I have no idea how to test this one. I feel like I'd prefer to have the repulsor army, though... maybe.

StarofEarendil July 23rd, 2009 10:34 PM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
Let's see....
1. Nilfheim (185/185)
Sir Gilbert (105/290)
x3 KoW (210/500)

beaten by

2. Sujoah (185/185)
x4 10th Reg. (300/485)
Isamu (10/495)

beaten by

3. Zelrig (185/185)
x3 Marrden Hounds (270/455)
Guilty McCreech (30/485)

beaten by

4. Jotun (225/225)
x2 Omnicron Snipers (200/425)
x1 Repulsors (40/465)

beaten by

5. x4 Reavers (160/160)
x5 Harquebus (300/460)

beaten by

6. Mimring (150/150)
x4 Arrow Gruts (160/310)
x5 Swogs (125/435)

beaten by

7. Spartacus (200/200)
Crixus (90/290)
x2 Capuans (140/430)

beaten by

8. Grimnak (120/120)
x4 Heavy Gruts (280/400)

beaten by

9. Tor-Kul-Na (220/220)
x5 Nagrubs (150/370)

beaten by

10. x3 Templar Cavalry (360/360)

beaten by

11. x5 4th Mass. (350/350)

beaten by

12. Q9 (180/180)
Krav Maga (100/280)
Izumi (60/340)

beaten by

13. Sgt. Drake, SotM (170/170)
Sonlen (160/330)

beaten by

14. Wo-Sa-Ga (135/135)
x2 Gladiatrons (180/315)

beaten by (with some luck...)

15. Braxas (210/210)
Kozuke (100/310)

beaten by

16. x3 Deathstalkers (300/300)

beaten by

17. x3 Gnators (270/270)
Kyntela Gwyn (20/290)(you'll see why later...)

beaten by

18. Marcus Gallus (100/100)
x3 Legos (150/250)

beaten by

19. x4 Zombies (240/240)

beaten by

20. Brunak (110/110)
Krug (120/230)

beaten by

21. Tornak (100/100)
x3 Blade Gruts (120/220)

beaten by

22. Charos (210/210)

beaten by

23. Atlaga (90/90)
x1 Protectors (110/200)

beaten by

24. Airborne Elite (110/110)
Shiori (60/170)

beaten by

25. Cyprien (150/150)

beaten by

26. Major X17 (100/100)
Theracus (140/140)

beaten by

27. Kaemon Awa (120/120)
Otonoshi (10/130)

beaten by

28. Tagawa Samurai (120/120)

beaten by

29. x2 Roman Archers (110/110)

beaten by

30. x2 Drudge (100/100)

beaten by

31. Kumiko (80/80)

beaten by

32. Zettian Guards (70/70)

beaten by

33. Brave Arrow (50/50)

beaten by(with some luck again...)

34. Venoc Vipers (40/40)

beaten by

35. Nagrubs (30/30)

beaten by

36. Marcu (20/20)

Rich10 July 24th, 2009 11:44 AM

Re: HS army "waterfall"
 
This is harder than it looks. I took this from 500 down to 400 points (12 steps). I think that this works...

Stingers x 7 420
Concan 80
500

4th Mass x 4 280
Charos 210
490

Q9 180
Laglor 110
Rats x 3 120
Zettians 70
480

Repulsors x 3 120
KA 120
Raelin1 80
Q10 150
470

10th Reg x 4 300
MDG 100
Armoc Vipers 65
465

Blasts x 2 120
Glads x 3 240
Omni Snipers 100
460

Marro Dividers x 3 150
Nilfheim 185
Nakitas 120
455

KOW x 4 280
Sir Gilbert 105
Zeta 60
445

Braxas 210
Sentinels x 2 220
Isamu 10
440

Deathstalkers x 2 200
Grimnak 120
Ninjas OTN 110
430

SBN 160
Drones x 5 250
410

Roman Legion x 5 250
Sir Dupuis 150
400


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