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-   C3G Legacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=179)
-   -   Godzilla and friends (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=56021)

MrNobody July 30th, 2019 03:53 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Yeah I like C. I know doing separate versions for everybody’s desires isn’t always the best move, but it feels right here. Godzilla has several distinct portrayals and I think having a giant one-monster-army Destroyer Godzilla and a smaller King Of Monsters Protector Godzilla that focuses more on interacting with others sounds like a really solid way to make sure everyone is satisfied.

Karat July 30th, 2019 03:53 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
C makes the most sense.

Yodaking July 30th, 2019 03:58 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I'll vote C as well. Seems like the best way forward here. Each faction can just make their own card and everyone is happy.

Soundwarp SG-1 July 30th, 2019 04:55 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
C is fine by me.

Soundwarp SG-1 July 30th, 2019 10:34 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I guess I should clarify that I'm pro C because that gets me the Godzilla I want for tournaments and such, while I also expect to be laughing manically as Project: Big Chungus Godzilla collapses under it's own weight and everyone comes over to my side.

But hey, maybe having an antagonist will help spur y'all to victory, which is great too. So Grr, I'm a bad guy and such! Believe in your Dreams!

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 01:37 AM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 (Post 2300639)
I guess I should clarify that I'm pro C because that gets me the Godzilla I want for tournaments and such, while I also expect to be laughing manically as Project: Big Chungus Godzilla collapses under it's own weight and everyone comes over to my side.

But hey, maybe having an antagonist will help spur y'all to victory, which is great too. So Grr, I'm a bad guy and such! Believe in your Dreams!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zrfUJzfMZ_4/maxresdefault.jpg

Soundwarp SG-1 July 31st, 2019 02:09 AM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Just to clarify, that was just a joke on my part. No offense intended or anything. I just wanted an excuse to say big chungus Godzilla.

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 02:33 AM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 (Post 2300681)
Just to clarify, that was just a joke on my part. No offense intended or anything. I just wanted an excuse to say big chungus Godzilla.
Lol and I got to use OPM so we’re good.

A3n July 31st, 2019 02:54 AM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
C I think is best when doable.

quozl July 31st, 2019 10:44 AM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Looks like we have enough votes for A & C to go ahead with the smaller version and then do the bigger version.

Lord Pyre July 31st, 2019 10:46 AM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I'm totally fine with different versions. But again a bigger one I'll still have the problem of not really caring to use since he's huge and awkward. Two versions doesn't change that, I just might happen to use the smaller one.

But I've never played with Galactus or Anti-Monitor ever and I'm not upset about that, so the point is practically moot already. :)

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 04:33 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I think the big guy should focus on being the Eventiest kind of Event Hero where he’s basically an army all to himself, while the smaller one can maybe be a bit cheaper (still expensive!) to allow for some team-ups with other Kaiju or superheroes.

To that end, on small Godzilla what if there was a power similar to what Johnny had for his Zod II?
Quote:
KING OF THE MONSTERS
Friendly Huge figures adjacent to Godzilla add 1 to their Attack number. Opponents' Huge figures adjacent to Godzilla subtract 1 from their Defense number.
And for the big guy, I had this idea. Probably a bit too custom-y though.
Quote:
MASSIVE DESTRUCTION
If any terrain, obstacle, or Destructible Object would prevent you from placing Godzilla, you may remove it from the battlefield.
Idea being that if a tree or something is in the way of Godzilla’s tail fitting on the battlefield, you can just get rid of the tree.

Yodaking July 31st, 2019 05:12 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I wouldn't want to have all my huge monster figures tied at the hip with each other.

Soundwarp SG-1 July 31st, 2019 05:25 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Adjacency doesn't really work for Godzilla (even shrunk Godzilla) that well practically IMO, and that feels a bit too passive to me. Hmm, maybe more of like... if he has wounded at least one enemy huge figure during the round, then he adds 1/subtracts 1 for all huge friendlies/enemies on the field? Feels a bit more Godzilla to me, where he lands a blow on some previously invincible monster guy and is like 'nope, this is still my house botch'. I guess that would technically make him kinda a counter draft... but honestly I'm fine with him only really leading monsters against other monsters.

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 05:27 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Yeah I was trying to go fairly light to avoid it being the defining element of the design, but you guys have solid points about the adjacency. I like Sideswipe’s take.

quozl July 31st, 2019 05:29 PM
Godzilla and friends
 
I thought we should move all this stuff here.

Anyone have links to Godzilla designs?

Lazy Orang July 31st, 2019 05:29 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I wouldn't want to see him too synergistic or counterdrafty.... but a light touch I'm good with.

IAmBatman July 31st, 2019 05:33 PM
Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I like King of the Monsters, but I'd have the defensive subtraction apply to all opponent's figures. He should intimidate everyone.

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 05:36 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
I did a Godzilla design a long time back. It’s linked in my public design workshop.

Yodaking July 31st, 2019 05:43 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Was wondering if maybe he would be better off offering a group of monsters some OM flex for the "King of the Monsters" power. After seeing Soundwarp's post, I could also see it working like a Master Motivator type of power. He lands a big blow, and triggers a follow up attack by another huge monster/creature.

KING OF THE MONSTERS
After taking a turn with Godzilla, if he inflicted two or more wounds with his normal attack this turn, you may take an immediate turn with any other Huge Monster or Creature Hero you control within clear sight of Godzilla, and you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

Huge Creatures: Dragon Man

quozl July 31st, 2019 05:45 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Kaiju shouldn't have synergy.

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 05:46 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
I like opening it up a bit more to all Huge figures or all Creatures, if only so we don’t have to design a whole bunch of giant monsters to make him feel worthwhile.

IAmBatman July 31st, 2019 05:51 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300767)
Kaiju shouldn't have synergy.
While I don't 100% agree, I think eventy event heroes work best when they're at least 95% stand alone. I should be able to run Godzilla by himself and enjoy it as an army of one. Especially with the bigger of the two, of course.

Soundwarp SG-1 July 31st, 2019 06:05 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
I thought the whole idea with doing two of them was to have a big 'ragh destruction!' Godzilla and a smaller 'good guy' Godzilla. :shrug: 'Good guy' Godzilla totally does work with other monsters all the time.

Personally, I feel like a minor attack boost isn't really make or break synergy anyway. Especially if the same power is also hitting enemies' defense. Like if he's 400+ points and has a crazy atomic breath attack and such he would hardly be undraftable without other huge dudes. I wouldn't want to see something to the level of Master Motivator though, that's a bit too much IMO. OM efficiency would really be more Mothra's bailiwick I'd think.

Though I guess the question is which comic book versions to specifically tie the two sizes to, and if there is a proper 'good guy' Godzilla in comic books. Which I'd have to look up, since honestly all Godzilla media tends to blend together for me after a while.

IAmBatman July 31st, 2019 08:29 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Yeah, it’s the OM stuff/faction hub approach I’d really be against.

Tornado July 31st, 2019 08:54 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
I was thinking about how I was going to have a Thoth card that turned Satanus into Godzilla essentially and was thinking we could try a similar mechanic here.
So we use the two hex figure and give him a power like:

LARGER THAN LIFE
Godzilla is consider to have the size and height of Huge 100 (or whatever).

MrNobody July 31st, 2019 09:28 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
What gameplay benefits would that have, T?

Tornado August 1st, 2019 01:51 AM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
He could attack figures on top of 99 level building!
Also I would add more to that power, not sure what exactly.

IAmBatman August 1st, 2019 07:46 AM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Are we going to have any 99 level buildings?

quozl August 1st, 2019 08:42 AM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Only 99 balloons.

MrNobody September 16th, 2019 01:37 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Quote:
NAME = GODZILLA (SOLO)

SPECIES = KAIJU
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = DESTROYER
PERSONALITY = FEROCIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE ??

LIFE = 25

MOVE = 0
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 9
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 1400?

EARTH-SHATTERING STOMP
Instead of moving normally with Godzilla, you may place him on any space up to 4 spaces away from his current placement. After doing so, you may roll an unblockable attack die against every figure adjacent to Godzilla, or you may reveal an 'X' order marker to roll 2 unblockable attack dice against every figure adjacent to Godzilla. If a figure that is not Huge receives a wound from Earth-Shattering Stomp, you may move that figure up to 1 space. Godzilla may not move more than 8 levels up or down with a single stomp, and will not take leaving engagement attacks from figures that are not Huge.

ATOMIC BREATH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
Choose an opponent's figure within 8 clear sight spaces of Godzilla as the target figure. Choose all figures on the spaces of a shortest path from Godzilla to the target figure. The target figure, all the chosen figures on that path, and any figures adjacent to the target figure are affected by Atomic Breath Special Attack. Godzilla only needs a clear sight shot at the chosen figure. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. If a figure receives one or more wounds from this special attack, roll an unblockable attack die against the defending figure.

GIGANTIC REACH
Godzilla may add 1 to his range when attacking a figure whose base is no more than 6 levels higher than his height or 6 levels lower than his base.
Quote:
NAME = GODZILLA (TEAM-UP)

SPECIES = KAIJU
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = PROTECTOR
PERSONALITY = FEROCIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE ??

LIFE = 13

MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 600?

ROAR AND CHARGE 12
If Godzilla is not engaged, instead of moving normally with Godzilla, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, you may move Godzilla up to 6 spaces and figures roll 2 fewer defense dice when defending against Godzilla's normal attack this turn.

ATOMIC FIRE LINE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
Choose 8 spaces in a straight line from Godzilla. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by this special attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately. If a figure receives one or more wounds from this special attack, roll an unblockable attack die against the defending figure.

KING OF MONSTERS
If Godzilla has inflicted at least one wound this round, all Huge figures you control within clear sight of Godzilla add 1 to their attack number and all opponent's Huge figures within clear sight of Godzilla subtract 1 from their attack numbers.
Not sold on any of this at all, so feel free to toss it out. Just some ideas to get the ball rolling.

Tornado September 16th, 2019 01:48 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Margloth has a pretty sweet Godzilla design.

IAmBatman September 16th, 2019 02:17 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
I wonder if the event version should specify that you cannot move him normally?

Lazy Orang September 16th, 2019 02:24 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Not sure that's necessary - I think everyone in Classic pretty much accepted there's no moving the Hive even if you pick up the move glyph (Valda, was it?)

IAmBatman September 16th, 2019 02:30 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Even if he starts/ends his move on road or one of several C3G figures gives him passive movement of 2 to 4 spaces?

Does the Hive have an instead of moving normally power that would imply it can move normally?

Lazy Orang September 16th, 2019 02:52 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Nope, it doesn't.

Lazy Orang September 16th, 2019 02:56 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Ah, okay, I was sort of wrong. Nothing on the Hive's card states that, but bonus rules for the Hive apparently exist in the Rulebook (which I'd completely forgotten)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarm of the Marro
Marro Hive Rules
There are a few rules that apply only to the Marro Hive. The Marro Hive may never be moved from its starting location by any special power on any Army Card or Glyph. Figures can never move through a space occupied by the Marro Hive. For example, Shiori cannot use her Phantom Walk special power to walk through the Hive. If the Marro Hive was placed on the battlefield by a player as part of his army, when it is destroyed remove the Hive and the 6-hex swamp water tile base. If the Marro Hive was placed on the battlefield as directed by a scenario, when it is destroyed remove the Hive and leave the 6-hex swamp water tile base on the battlefield. When placing the Marro Hive, it is always placed on its 6-hex swamp water tile base. When placing the 6-hex swamp water tile base, you cannot create an overhang (no empty space can be under the base). The 6hex base can only be placed on land tiles. When calculating height advantage against or for the Marro Hive, consider the Hive to be sitting in the swamp water.

IAmBatman September 16th, 2019 04:19 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
The way I see it, we have two options:

1. We could try to better clarify it in the power text

2. We could go full Galactus (the figure size justifies it) and give it a small rulebook for its movement.

Lazy Orang September 16th, 2019 04:22 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2314017)
The way I see it, we have two options:

1. We could try to better clarify it in the power text

2. We could go full Galactus (the figure size justifies it) and give it a small rulebook for its movement.
I'd go this way. I'd like to establish the ability to move figures that are larger than 2 spaces, and Godzilla feels like a good iconic benchmark/launchpad figure for such a mechanic, in the same way Galactus was for terrain removal (even though that mechanic's been used, what, once since? It's a cool idea, wouldn't mind seeing it more. In fact, a figure I designed for my bro implements it. :) ).

IAmBatman September 16th, 2019 06:32 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Would it really be establishing how all figures of that size move or just how he moves? I ask because Galactus is that size and yet we're still looking for that template.

Lazy Orang September 16th, 2019 06:37 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Galactus has super-specific weird movement rules tied to his herald, because 1) it's thematic, 2) he's at a scale where moving around a city normally is a little odd, and 3) he was created before we were ready to get into 'larger than double spaced' movement rules. We appear to be willing to now and Godzilla literally just stomps around.

MrNobody September 16th, 2019 07:10 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
He stomps around Tokyo city like a big playground, in fact.

I do think 3+ hex movement rules would be useful, and this seems like as good a place as any to do them. Does feel like we’ve been a bit ruleset-happy recently though. I also don’t think 3+ designs will be that common. It’s quite possible we’d just be able to give them each their own rules. I’m mainly thinking VDOs will be the biggest struggle.

Arch-vile September 16th, 2019 07:23 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
I had a buddy with a ton of crazy customs (super unbalanced and goofy, but very fun). He just moved bigger based figures like double-spaced figures: choose a hex to start movement with and the rest just followed. So I could see a simple Marro Hive-like ruleset working well.

But a power like MrNobody's Earth-Shattering Stomp is an easier way to go about it while effectively keeping the same theme. I'd be more in favor of that, honestly. I feel a lot of supplemental rules just go unused due to them adding complexity (I saw this in HoSS with the Occupyable DOs rules; only a couple people ever talked about them).

Tornado September 16th, 2019 07:34 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
There are already rules for 3+ hex figures somewhere.

IAmBatman September 16th, 2019 07:49 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2314062)
There are already rules for 3+ hex figures somewhere.
Those were for throwing DOs that size. They were never formalized into movement rules, as I recall.

Tornado September 16th, 2019 07:50 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
That sounds right. Can they be adapted?

IAmBatman September 16th, 2019 07:51 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Probably. It just requires someone to do it.

quozl September 16th, 2019 09:00 PM
Re: Godzilla and friends
 
Throwing is moving.


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