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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred December 11th, 2021 10:13 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2486767)
I think I'll go with just designing Will for now. My thoughts with the personality would be that Will could change from valiant to resolute. Other options would be "precise" "loyal" and "mysterious." (Mysterious would be inventing a personality though).

I think if the mysterious route is chosen it should be the focus of the figure. A once per game power that allows the player to choose a mode and radically change the figure.
If it swapped around with an X marker, that's more Tricky than Mysterious. It would need to be memorable, so players remember it. Then again could place the appropriate personality marker on the figure. choices.

Confred December 11th, 2021 10:18 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strack9 (Post 2491138)
Just stumbled on this thread and am inspired by the Ranger team.

Welcome to the group. You have been added to the list and came in at a good time because that places you relatively close to becoming a design lead as most of us have designed >0 cards.

Confred December 11th, 2021 10:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2492092)
Here's my latest update:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/85ygKJ5/Will-Treaty.jpg[/IMG]

Now this is cool.

With Ranger's Cloak, could probably simplify it to simply remove X to move. Yes that could enhance power level, but eh

I love the limited counter strike

Confred December 11th, 2021 10:24 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strack9 (Post 2492126)
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

Does the 'X' marker have to be on this card?

If the move is only going to happen once per round because of the 'X' order marker (and only one of your rangers will be able to do it) I could see a bigger number of move spaces being more useful, but not overpowered.

I like Move 2 as homage to Tracking

Taeblewalker December 11th, 2021 11:39 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I like the idea of Ranger's Cloak. It prevents him from being sniped if you lose the initiative. I'm not sure that that power plus Double Knife Defense should cost 30 more points than Syvarris with the exact same stats. Maybe 120 would be better, but I'd have to playtest it to be sure. Overall, solid design.

Strack9 December 14th, 2021 03:13 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2492147)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strack9 (Post 2492126)
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

Does the 'X' marker have to be on this card?

If the move is only going to happen once per round because of the 'X' order marker (and only one of your rangers will be able to do it) I could see a bigger number of move spaces being more useful, but not overpowered.

My thought was that it could happen at any time, including interrupting another players turn, but I'm not sure. The idea would be that it keeps the figure out of range of Cyprein or Templar. Do you have any ideas for how that could be expressed on the card in a way that's not confusing?

I think letting it happen at any time is a little messy compared to defining a condition or turn phase. Here's some thoughts on how to express that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strack9 (Post 2491138)
. . . The first time any figure you control is targeted for an attack on an opponent's turn, if there is an opponent's figure within 3 spaces of Will that was more than 3 spaces away from Will at the start of the turn, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker to move 2 spaces . . .

Pros:
  • The timing is clear.
  • It will protect from 1 round of melee attacks by a figure that is trying to close the distance; like Templar
  • The flavor of a figure less that 3 spaces away detecting him between turns is nice and offers some playstyle decisions for both players
  • 2 spaces is enough to get the job done
  • gives utility even when Will isn't the one being attacked

Cons:
  • It doesn't protect against special abilities like Cyprien's Chilling Touch
  • Doesn't protect against special attacks that don't target, like Mimring's Fire Line


You could add in special abilities:
Quote:

. . . Whenever Will is targeted for an attack or a special ability by an opponent's figure that is adjacent to Will you may reveal the "X" Order Marker to move 2 spaces . . .
Pros:
  • The timing is probably clear?
  • It will protect from 1 round of melee attacks by a figure that is trying to close the distance; like Templar
  • It will protect against special abilities that require adjacency like Cyprien's
  • 2 spaces is enough to get the job done

Cons:
  • It doesn't protect against ranged special abilities like Braxas' Acid Breath
  • Still doesn't protect against special attacks that don't target like Mimring's Fire Line
  • How special abilities "target" a figure may be less clear than how special attacks "target". I can't think of a precident for that kind of language for anywhere, and a lot of FAQs were needed for the Nakita' Smoke Powder to just to cover how it worked for attacks. There's a lot more and varied kinds of special powers
  • less flavor

You could trigger it off of movement like Elaria the Pale:
Quote:

. . . If an opponent's figure moves adjacent to Will and onto a space where it can end its movement, Will may immediately reveal the "X" Order Marker to move up to 2 spaces. Will will not take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with Ranger's Cloak
Pros:
  • Timing is clear
  • Might protect against Cyprien or Templar sometimes

Cons:
  • 2 move probably isn't enough because it won't protect against Cyprien or Templar if they have more than 2 move left after you activate Ranger's Cloak
  • Even if you move away from one potential attack, it doesn't keep remaining figures of a squad from closing the distance and attacking

I think the power is best keying off an attack because Cloaking 2 spaces is probably only useful if if the opponent is done moving. I, for one, am OK with him being vulnerable to some special abilities if he can avoid 1 round of melee attacks. I vaguely recall that there may be a reason to disinclude special attacks from powers that trigger off of being attacked (most figures avoid including special attacks or use "when rolling Defense Dice" language). I can't remember the specific reason why, but queuing off that hunch and mixing and matching, this one would be my best effort:

Quote:

If there are no revealed numbered Order Markers on this card, Will Treaty has no visible Hit Zone to figures entirely more than 3 spaces away. Once per round, if there are no other revealed Order Markers on this card, if Will is targeted for a normal attack by an adjacent opponent that was more than 3 spaces away from Will at the start of its turn, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker to move 2 spaces. Will will not take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with Ranger's Cloak. If Will remains adjacent to the attacking figure, it must attack Will this turn.
I like the idea of Will being able to reposition instead of running, but I do think the power should either specify what happens if he remains adjacent, or state that he must "end his move unadjacent in order to move"

I think the power would be OK with only covering normal attacks. There's still protection against ranged special attacks and you'll be able to move away from everything but an adjacent special attack. Few squads have special attacks, and if you still wanted protection from a Hero melee special attack, you could change Double Knife Defense 12 to just be "when rolling defense dice" and eliminate the "against a normal attack" language.

edit: I think Double Knife Defense should be renamed Double Dagger Defense 'cause then you'd have a Cloak power and a Dagger power :)

Confred December 14th, 2021 04:14 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2492147)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strack9 (Post 2492126)
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

My thought was that it could happen at any time, including interrupting another players turn, but I'm not sure. The idea would be that it keeps the figure out of range of Cyprein or Templar. Do you have any ideas for how that could be expressed on the card in a way that's not confusing?

As written, the power only can be activated during its turn.

Rephrasing examples could be appropriate here to share.

Dysole December 14th, 2021 08:05 PM

For What It's Worth
 
If I remember right Elaria's Slippery 6 created an absolute MESS of rules situations as far as movement interactions on an opponent's turn so it's really best to make the X OM reveal something you reveal on your turn.

Also worth noting that I don't love "no visible hit zones within X spaces away" but it does leave the figure vulnerable to things like Acid Breath, Dragon Swoop, and other powers that are not considered to be attacks. No clue if this is on theme or not.

~Dysole, who will try to give a more in depth look soon

Knox December 15th, 2021 05:06 PM

Re: For What It's Worth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dysole (Post 2493715)
If I remember right Elaria's Slippery 6 created an absolute MESS of rules situations as far as movement interactions on an opponent's turn so it's really best to make the X OM reveal something you reveal on your turn.

Also worth noting that I don't love "no visible hit zones within X spaces away" but it does leave the figure vulnerable to things like Acid Breath, Dragon Swoop, and other powers that are not considered to be attacks. No clue if this is on theme or not.

~Dysole, who will try to give a more in depth look soon

Eh, I think it could be on theme. If you know generally that there's an opponent in the area and they're well hidden, throwing a grenade, shooting a rocket launcher, or filling the area with poisonous gas (all AOE attacks in heroscape) seem like a good fool-proof way to hit the target. I don't see why that would break the theme. A mini dragon could also be hyper perceptive or even navigate with smell. Being unhittable isn't the theme, but incredible camouflage is. Camouflage is probably #1 on most essential thematic elements based on the books.

William099 September 13th, 2022 10:42 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Look at this :)

Elven Lord September 13th, 2022 01:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2493303)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2492092)
Here's my latest update:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/85ygKJ5/Will-Treaty.jpg[/IMG]

Now this is cool.

With Ranger's Cloak, could probably simplify it to simply remove X to move. Yes that could enhance power level, but eh

I love the limited counter strike

I love this. Thank you to whoever made a custom figure of one of my favorite childhood characters.

Knox September 14th, 2022 04:30 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elven Lord (Post 2536353)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2493303)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2492092)
Here's my latest update:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/85ygKJ5/Will-Treaty.jpg[/IMG]

Now this is cool.

With Ranger's Cloak, could probably simplify it to simply remove X to move. Yes that could enhance power level, but eh

I love the limited counter strike

I love this. Thank you to whoever made a custom figure of one of my favorite childhood characters.

Thanks!


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