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-   -   Decision 2016 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53250)

Dad_Scaper November 17th, 2016 11:07 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
I'm not nervous about what he intends to do with regard to policy. That's all out there. I am concerned because of other things, which I've written about at length here.

Science does not know a political party. Putin would *much* rather have an American President who can't be bothered to talk to the State Department before talking to him. People - and I mean conservatives - who have tried to help him have been rebuffed. I am worried about what people conducting a transition like this are capable of. Those of us following the news, let's not pretend this is normal.

The power of Trump's charisma will not be enough to address natural or international or whatever disasters and conflicts. What matters then is *competence*, and so far he doesn't seem to be seeking out that quality.

keglo November 17th, 2016 11:26 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2121805)

I want Trump to succeed. I hope he does. So far, his appointments and his rhetoric are troubling.

I honestly don't understand where all the hate for Bannon comes from. I see a lot of people saying that he is racist and anti-semitic, but I can't find any real, convincing evidence of it being true. Yes I read the links provided earlier. No proof there. As for other troubling appointments, I haven't heard of any. I do get the feeling that whomever Trump chooses for any and all appointments, is going to get scrutinized way beyond what is normal or proper.

Dad_Scaper November 18th, 2016 12:01 AM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Steve Bannon took over the reins of Breitbart from Andrew Breitbart, after the founder's death. Since he took over, Breitbart has emerged as the platform of the alt-right. Don't take my word for it, take his.

I have no idea what would happen if you gave Steve Bannon the truth serum like Robert DeNiro used in Meet the Parents. I don't know what's in his heart and I don't know what's in Trump's. But I know that Bannon has turned Breitbart into a platform for dangerous fear- and hatemongers like Milo Yiannopoulos and others. It may all be a charade, but if so, he is *deliberately stoking hate*, and we know this from a reliable source: himself. “Let the grassroots turn on the hate," he's said privately, "because that’s the ONLY thing that will make them do their duty.” Is Bannon racist? It's possible he's not. His former editor-in-chief at Breitbart said as much, but added that "Bannon has nonetheless courted the alt-right and the anti-Semitism and racism that go along with it, and he will do so as long as it serves his purposes."

For you, perhaps, there's a significant difference between being a white supremacist and being the chief executive of a platform serving white supremacists. For me, the distinction is not very important. (Side note: I am not saying that all who read Breitbart are white supremacists. I didn't say it and don't believe it.) Anyway, don't tell these guys that there's an important difference, because clearly they think this bodes well.

You suggest that I'm blindly criticizing - "way beyond what is normal or proper" - anyone selected by Trump to work on his transition or in his cabinet. I've already distinguished between different names associated with Trump's transition. Reince Preibus is an establishment Republican and a reasonable choice as chief of staff. Indeed, the only reasonable choice I've seen so far. Others, not so much.

I'm perfectly capable of distinguishing between conservative appointees, keglo. Spare me your accusation of blindness, please. I understand I won't be able to persuade you, and I don't intend to try, but there is no need to offer the meritless argument that I am being wilfully dishonest. Preibus, sure, Gaffney, hell no.

edit: This is not normal. I mean, we know he billed the Secret Service $1.6 million for flying on his plane during the campaign; we know Ivanka will be running his business interests after he's sworn in. And here she is, meeting the Prime Minister of Japan, and the press has been walled off.

This is not how it's supposed to work, and it's not how it's worked in the past, under anybody. I know some of you voted for him, and of those who voted for him I believe some of you voted for him reluctantly. That's fine; we are where we are. Do not relax your vigilance now, just as you did not relax your vigilance in the eight years gone by. It's healthy to be skeptical. :up:

Dad_Scaper November 18th, 2016 06:10 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
. . . and for those curious about what the "alt right" actually is, here is the transcript of an interview with Richard Spencer, the influential guy who coined the term.

So when Bannon said that Breitbart was the platform for the alt-right, that's what he was talking about.

Hahma November 18th, 2016 08:06 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2121987)
. . . and for those curious about what the "alt right" actually is, here is the transcript of an interview with Richard Spencer, the influential guy who coined the term.

So when Bannon said that Breitbart was the platform for the alt-right, that's what he was talking about.


Seems like Spencer is going for the slow play to change opinions over time, perhaps to get immigration laws changed as such to gain a higher percentage of European immigrants here.

I know Chicago has a huge population of Polish immigrants. I know a bunch of Serbs and Macedonian immigrants at the hospital I work at in Northwest Indiana. It's pretty diverse anyway blacks, whites, Hispanics, Indian, Middle Easterers, Filipinos etc. But of the white immigrants, they seem to be Serbian, Macedonian, with some Croatian, Romanian and Russian here and there.

I suppose if our southern border is tightened up, and Muslim immigrants restricted, Russia could perhaps move into different parts of eastern Europe and create more European immigrants to flee here. I can see it as a subtle means to achieve Spencer's goal.

Edit: for the record, we have a lot of diversity at the hospital that I work at, and I really enjoy it. People from all walks of life working together and laughing together. Sure there are people that don't get along, just like anywhere, but I for one can say that it's neat.

keglo November 18th, 2016 08:09 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2121987)
. . . and for those curious about what the "alt right" actually is, here is the transcript of an interview with Richard Spencer, the influential guy who coined the term.

So when Bannon said that Breitbart was the platform for the alt-right, that's what he was talking about.

Thank you for the link. I had literally never even heard of the alt-right until this election. And while I'm still not sure whether or not Bannon himself is racist and anti-Semitic, I do concede that Bannon was not a good or wise choice for Trump. I was starting to worry that Trump was just going to appoint a bunch of yes-men, but the rumors of possible appointments for Mitt Romney and Ted Cruz make me feel a little better about that.

Hahma November 18th, 2016 08:17 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keglo (Post 2122007)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2121987)
. . . and for those curious about what the "alt right" actually is, here is the transcript of an interview with Richard Spencer, the influential guy who coined the term.

So when Bannon said that Breitbart was the platform for the alt-right, that's what he was talking about.

Thank you for the link. I had literally never even heard of the alt-right until this election. And while I'm still not sure whether or not Bannon himself is racist and anti-Semitic, I do concede that Bannon was not a good or wise choice for Trump. I was starting to worry that Trump was just going to appoint a bunch of yes-men, but the rumors of possible appointments for Mitt Romney and Ted Cruz make me feel a little better about that.

Not sure Romney is going to get the Secretary of State appointment, it may still be Gullioni.

Dad_Scaper November 18th, 2016 09:05 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keglo (Post 2122007)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2121987)
. . . and for those curious about what the "alt right" actually is, here is the transcript of an interview with Richard Spencer, the influential guy who coined the term.

So when Bannon said that Breitbart was the platform for the alt-right, that's what he was talking about.

Thank you for the link. I had literally never even heard of the alt-right until this election. And while I'm still not sure whether or not Bannon himself is racist and anti-Semitic, I do concede that Bannon was not a good or wise choice for Trump. I was starting to worry that Trump was just going to appoint a bunch of yes-men, but the rumors of possible appointments for Mitt Romney and Ted Cruz make me feel a little better about that.

Keglo, I am very pleased you read the link. Here is one of the lead passages from it, for those who did not click:
Quote:

What I would ultimately want is this ideal of a safe space effectively for Europeans. This is a big empire that would accept all Europeans. It would be a place for Germans. It would be a place for Slavs. It would be a place for Celts. It would be a place for white Americans and so on.
That's scary stuff, right? And not the way we conceive of America, right? Very frightening. And when Bannon inherited Breitbart, it was not associated with this extreme ideology. I was no fan of Breitbart himself, but at least he abhorred racism.
Quote:

"Andrew Breitbart despised racism. Truly despised it," former Breitbart editor-at-large Ben Shapiro wrote last week on the Daily Wire, a conservative website.
Breitbart only became a platform for racism and the alt-right since Bannon took over. It's his messaging. What he has in his heart, I don't know. But I know what he's been communicating through his platform for years, and it's bad news. "Not your father's Republican Party," to paraphrase a commercial.

Hahma November 18th, 2016 09:13 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
I will say that Michael Shannon is giving the right plenty of ammunition about the liberals not being as tolerant as they pretend to be.

Dad_Scaper November 18th, 2016 09:15 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hahma (Post 2122018)
I will say that Michael Shannon is giving the right plenty of ammunition about the liberals not being as tolerant as they pretend to be.

Oh, who is that man. I refuse to accept that relatively isolated incidents like that justify or mitigate the nastiness of the recent spike in hate crimes, often invoking the President Elect by name.

Hahma November 18th, 2016 09:36 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2122019)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hahma (Post 2122018)
I will say that Michael Shannon is giving the right plenty of ammunition about the liberals not being as tolerant as they pretend to be.

Oh, who is that man. I refuse to accept that relatively isolated incidents like that justify or mitigate the nastiness of the recent spike in hate crimes, often invoking the President Elect by name.

Of course not, I never said that it did. Though people generalizing that all those who voted for Trump are racist isn't any better than other generations that some people make that aren't appreciated.

Dad_Scaper November 18th, 2016 10:19 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Oh, I know you didn't say anything like that. But there are people out there talking that way. It's sad.


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