Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

ENERGY BRIDGE
Ariel and friendly figures may ignore all effects of terrain within 5 spaces of Ariel. Affected figures do not roll for falling damage.

WIZARD RIVALRY
If Ariel is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's Wizard figure, add 2 to her Attack and Defense values.

ENERGY RINGS
If an opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces attacks Ariel or a friendly Barbarian or Gladiator within 5 clear sight spaces of Ariel, you may immediately reveal and remove an X order marker that is on this card to end the turn.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

:thumbsup:

Seems Good
 

:thumbsup:

~Dysole, who tried to think of ways that could screw things up but since it ends the turn it's probably fine

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Does that wrap it up?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Are we in agreement on the placement of immediately?

Design is into overtime

Next designers, start storming

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Cool with me.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Good for me too.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Agreed. I will update the card and post in display thread tomorrow

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Current design order:
@Sir Yeshua
@Zetsubo
@Knox
@Shiftrex
@SirGalahad
@Tornado
@JC McMinis
@Taeblewalker
@machinekng
@McHotcakes
@Confred
@CJtheMighty
@Barry allen
@Dysole

Sending messages to @Sir Yeshua and @Zetsubo

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Should I be at the bottom of the list?

Interesting
 

Not sure how the order works but yeah weren't our last three designs tornado, sir G, and myself in that order?

~Dysole, observationally

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sounds right.
Here's the list
What I do is sort by Column A, then pick from top
I'm mutable to suggestion

Not Helpful
 

Unfortunately, that won't work. I think what you need to do is put dates after the most recent ones and sort them that way.

~Dysole, informationally

Re: Not Helpful
 

Agreed. I'll add column. If any member wishes, I may link edit version to be handled by group. I would moderate by default. Position duty passable.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Updated order:

@Sir Yeshua
@Zetsubo
@Knox
@Shiftrex
@Barry allen
@Taeblewalker
@machinekng
@CJtheMighty
@Confred
@McHotcakes
@Dysole
@JC McMinis
@SirGalahad
@Tornado

Messages have been sent, first deadline to respond is Friday, Oct 8.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Sir Yeshua - Your proposal deadline approaches, this Friday at 10/8/21
@Zetsubo - You're second in line
@Knox - You're third in line
@Shiftrex - You're fourth
@Barry allen - Fifth
@Taeblewalker - Sixth

Please , start brainstorming :D

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Woo hoo, I will get to thinking.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Excited to hear it.

Structure is this:
Project enters voting
Next two leads are contacted
Project is voted
To respond, first next lead has two weeks (rounded up, always Friday)
All back up leads have +1week grace period to think and prepare instead of two weeks because they've already been notified and should be in know.
Any lead may pass, it will count towards their turn (as do time outs)
Time outs are logged and members may propose to alter lists with two thumbs, by default they'll continue to be given rotation grace (members inactive for years will remain until formally removed)
Any member may propose to skip or shorten grace period with two thumbs approval

Each phase of development is approx three weeks Friday
Discussion extends by 1 week
Progress isn't arbitrarily delayed, if crank it out before even one three week cycle so be it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Design decision has expired
@Zetsubo , you have one week to propose a hero or squad to enter the Heroes of Fiction design and development process ; 10/15
@Knox , you are on standby, please brainstorm ; 10 /22
@Shiftrex , please stand by ; 10/29 (Proposal request with two thumb responses to jump line - since you seem ready, if any want to make such a proposal)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Design decision has expired
@Knox , you have one week to propose a hero or squad to enter the Heroes of Fiction design and development process ; 10/22
@Shiftrex , you are on standby, please brainstorm ; 10 /29
@Barry allen , please stand by ; 11/5

Full List

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Will do :D

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm proposing two figures: Will Treaty and Halt O'Carrick from the Ranger's Apprentice book series. The reason I propose two is because most of their abilities are identical (and thus any critique/feedback for one will almost certainly apply to the other), and their synergies are powerful (hence it's difficult to evaluate one card without the other). Images of my current proposed cards are in the google drive link, if there's a better way for me to do that

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

For those unfamiliar with the books, they chronicle the journey of Will Treaty - an orphan raised in a specialized program for future government service, who is placed into an apprenticeship with a mysterious group of people known as "Rangers." Rangers are basically the special ops units of the kingdom, there's one in every fief, but they're secluded and even the king knows little about their abilities. Combat-wise, they're stealth and movement specialists first and foremost, longbow experts next, and man have superb knife skills. Their cloaks are their most unique feature, and are said to be perfect camouflage in any terrain.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Two figure squad?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'd rather them be heroes with unique synergy. They're probably too powerful as a squad, and I wouldn't want to give them each one life.

I could cut the synergy on Halt's card though and replace it with another ability. I'd rather do that than turn them into a squad

Choices
 

There is the option to design one now and then the other the next time around since Will looks pretty standalone. Ranger's Cloak though has an annoying memory mechanic with the lack of visible hit zones (especially since it could last between rounds).

Their gameplay is actually pretty different from each other just based on the cards you have. (Halt is much more of a run and gun figure while you arguably want Will engaged to melee figures) I don't love giving either valiant but neither gives a 4th build something they can't already get elsewhere.

Might have more thoughts later but those are what I'm thinking after a first pass.

~Dysole, informationally

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think I'll go with just designing Will for now. My thoughts with the personality would be that Will could change from valiant to resolute. Other options would be "precise" "loyal" and "mysterious." (Mysterious would be inventing a personality though).

I'm wondering if Ranger's cloak could somehow be changed in one of the following ways:
- If there are no revealed order markers on this card, Will Treaty has no visible hit zone...
- If Will Treaty's hit zone is partially obscured (from the vantage of a non-adjacent attacking figure) by a battlefield object (ruins, trees, glacier, bushes, battlements, etc.) or by terrain, Will Treaty is considered to have no visible hit zone (to that figure). Note that this does not apply if Will Treaty's hit zone is obscured by another figure.

The "or by terrain" part is optional. I'm open to adding or dropping that via playtesting

Thoughts?

P.S. for Halt I'm thinking Mysterious personality, and then replacing "like a son to me" with "expert tracker" which would just be "ignores difficult terrain" (e.g., heavy snow).

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

No revealed OMs = no hitzones is fun to me. Also keeps him safe in startzones.

I think partially obscured will be troublesome to judge and hard to define. If you're really attached to it could say: if any portion of "this figure name"'s histone is obscured then...

I think just sticking to the No OM = no hitzones is cleaner.

Ignoring difficult terrain is niche but very Ranger in terms of theme.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Yeah, I don't think "partially obscured" is something I was attached to. I was suggesting those as 2 different options. So no revealed OMs = no hitzone.

Yeah ignoring difficult terrain won't help the figure but it's one more fun thematic ability.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Just stumbled on this thread and am inspired by the Ranger team.

- I agree with Shiftrex's "no OM = no hitzones" being clear and simple and fun.

- It might be worthwhile to limit/specify how many times Ranger's cloak can trigger movement and whether it's any move that triggers it or only during a turn. Moving multiple times vs. one figure in a squad and then potentially repeating 3 more times could really drag a turn out; especially if you have more than 1 ranger doing the same thing. (If there were Ranger's Cloaks on opposing teams you could even get an infinite chain of move, react, react, react . . . etc.)

-It might be nice if one could wait until their opponent was done moving and then make a one time move of 2, but it's hard for me to think of what that might look like since I can't think of an existing example of using the space between an opponent's Move/Attack phase. And then there's dealing with powers that happen after the move phase like Dragon Swoop. It might just be easier to tie the move to the opponent's attack phase to make sure it happens after their total move is done - You've got a different to-hit number for each Ranger so you could add "Ranger's Cloak 14(16)" to the power name.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Thanks for joining the effort! We've put out a lot of great units; when I run games in Brooklyn we sometimes use the HoF units.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Here's my latest update:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/85ygKJ5/Will-Treaty.jpg[/IMG]

https://i.ibb.co/7g6s15x/Halt-Ocarrick-1.jpg


I basically consider them comparable to Syvarris, although slightly better - improved mobility & survivability with slightly less range.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ranger's Cloak is a great power; different than anything done before in HS (the closest existing powers would be Hide in Shadows, Cloud of Darkness, Lurk in Shadows and Smoke Powder 13) but fitting well into the canon. I wonder if he might be overpriced at 130, especially since he has no synergies with any other units, but overall he is a solid design.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

Does the 'X' marker have to be on this card?

If the move is only going to happen once per round because of the 'X' order marker (and only one of your rangers will be able to do it) I could see a bigger number of move spaces being more useful, but not overpowered.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

My thought was that it could happen at any time, including interrupting another players turn, but I'm not sure. The idea would be that it keeps the figure out of range of Cyprein or Templar. Do you have any ideas for how that could be expressed on the card in a way that's not confusing?

The points are going to depend on playtesting because the abilities are so unique. I think the abilities are set up in such a way that these units could be some of the best kiting figures in the game - like a more powerful version of Krav Maga (except with only 2 attacks instead of 3) because of the movement flexibility rangers cloak gives. For that reason I could see as high as 140 points for Will.

However, I could see a world in which their action inefficiency (only 2 attacks, no bonding) and low life/defense really inhibits them and brings Will as low as 90 points, and Halt as low as 80.

I'm expecting the sweet spot to be between 100-130 but that's pending playtesting.

As I theoryscape this, you'd probably only put 1 ranger in your army and you'd typically try to keep the "3" and "X" order markers on them every round once they've claimed height to take advantage of rangers cloak. That should make them really annoying and difficult to take down unless your opponent has units who can fly/disengage past your screen. But it also limits the potential of a Ranger totally devestating the opponents army - OMs 1 & 2 need to be on other units (I could see Knights of Weston as really good here) to keep ranger's cloak operative and build up a screen and ensure the ranger doesn't get taken down by opposing range with their mere 2 defense. When it gets to endgame, the Ranger will be deadly (if it survives) but will have lost the benefits of rangers cloak so it should be fairly even.

Re: Choices
 

I second this.

I like to think of phantom cards : Assume they exist and thus consider them in synergy . for example if we know the guy not being designed is more melee based, we don't have to design the melee power, but create a synergy that would theoretically enhance that.

I do this with scenarios also. There are aspects of a character that are part of their story but don't make the cut. For the scenario they indeed have this ability. In Master Set 3, there is a darkness scenario where players have torches. There could be a scenario for John Wick where coins come into play, etc etc.

Part of the fun - also! has you wanting to stay on so you can get to developing the next.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

It appears you are refencing powers not posted here. I see you included a link, but please, do repost the powers here.

No visible hit zones based on OM is easier, and thus probably the winner overall - I do like the other, but I imagine it being a sucker to pin down correctly with words.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think if the mysterious route is chosen it should be the focus of the figure. A once per game power that allows the player to choose a mode and radically change the figure.
If it swapped around with an X marker, that's more Tricky than Mysterious. It would need to be memorable, so players remember it. Then again could place the appropriate personality marker on the figure. choices.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Welcome to the group. You have been added to the list and came in at a good time because that places you relatively close to becoming a design lead as most of us have designed >0 cards.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Now this is cool.

With Ranger's Cloak, could probably simplify it to simply remove X to move. Yes that could enhance power level, but eh

I love the limited counter strike

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like Move 2 as homage to Tracking

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like the idea of Ranger's Cloak. It prevents him from being sniped if you lose the initiative. I'm not sure that that power plus Double Knife Defense should cost 30 more points than Syvarris with the exact same stats. Maybe 120 would be better, but I'd have to playtest it to be sure. Overall, solid design.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think letting it happen at any time is a little messy compared to defining a condition or turn phase. Here's some thoughts on how to express that:

Pros:

• The timing is clear.

• It will protect from 1 round of melee attacks by a figure that is trying to close the distance; like Templar

• The flavor of a figure less that 3 spaces away detecting him between turns is nice and offers some playstyle decisions for both players

• 2 spaces is enough to get the job done

• gives utility even when Will isn't the one being attacked

Cons:

• It doesn't protect against special abilities like Cyprien's Chilling Touch

• Doesn't protect against special attacks that don't target, like Mimring's Fire Line

You could add in special abilities:
Pros:

• The timing is probably clear?

• It will protect from 1 round of melee attacks by a figure that is trying to close the distance; like Templar

• It will protect against special abilities that require adjacency like Cyprien's

• 2 spaces is enough to get the job done

Cons:

• It doesn't protect against ranged special abilities like Braxas' Acid Breath

• Still doesn't protect against special attacks that don't target like Mimring's Fire Line

• How special abilities "target" a figure may be less clear than how special attacks "target". I can't think of a precident for that kind of language for anywhere, and a lot of FAQs were needed for the Nakita' Smoke Powder to just to cover how it worked for attacks. There's a lot more and varied kinds of special powers

• less flavor

You could trigger it off of movement like Elaria the Pale:
Pros:

• Timing is clear

• Might protect against Cyprien or Templar sometimes

Cons:

• 2 move probably isn't enough because it won't protect against Cyprien or Templar if they have more than 2 move left after you activate Ranger's Cloak

• Even if you move away from one potential attack, it doesn't keep remaining figures of a squad from closing the distance and attacking

I think the power is best keying off an attack because Cloaking 2 spaces is probably only useful if if the opponent is done moving. I, for one, am OK with him being vulnerable to some special abilities if he can avoid 1 round of melee attacks. I vaguely recall that there may be a reason to disinclude special attacks from powers that trigger off of being attacked (most figures avoid including special attacks or use "when rolling Defense Dice" language). I can't remember the specific reason why, but queuing off that hunch and mixing and matching, this one would be my best effort:

I like the idea of Will being able to reposition instead of running, but I do think the power should either specify what happens if he remains adjacent, or state that he must "end his move unadjacent in order to move"

I think the power would be OK with only covering normal attacks. There's still protection against ranged special attacks and you'll be able to move away from everything but an adjacent special attack. Few squads have special attacks, and if you still wanted protection from a Hero melee special attack, you could change Double Knife Defense 12 to just be "when rolling defense dice" and eliminate the "against a normal attack" language.

edit: I think Double Knife Defense should be renamed Double Dagger Defense 'cause then you'd have a Cloak power and a Dagger power :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

As written, the power only can be activated during its turn.

Rephrasing examples could be appropriate here to share.

For What It's Worth
 

If I remember right Elaria's Slippery 6 created an absolute MESS of rules situations as far as movement interactions on an opponent's turn so it's really best to make the X OM reveal something you reveal on your turn.

Also worth noting that I don't love "no visible hit zones within X spaces away" but it does leave the figure vulnerable to things like Acid Breath, Dragon Swoop, and other powers that are not considered to be attacks. No clue if this is on theme or not.

~Dysole, who will try to give a more in depth look soon

Re: For What It's Worth
 

Eh, I think it could be on theme. If you know generally that there's an opponent in the area and they're well hidden, throwing a grenade, shooting a rocket launcher, or filling the area with poisonous gas (all AOE attacks in heroscape) seem like a good fool-proof way to hit the target. I don't see why that would break the theme. A mini dragon could also be hyper perceptive or even navigate with smell. Being unhittable isn't the theme, but incredible camouflage is. Camouflage is probably #1 on most essential thematic elements based on the books.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Look at this :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I love this. Thank you to whoever made a custom figure of one of my favorite childhood characters.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Thanks!