Heroscapers - The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2258504)

I think cutting off some things makes sense. Like if a car blocks engagement and clear sight, for instance, it cuts off a lot of powers while leaving a lot of others.

That would be my barometer on a thematic level. Can Xavier command you if you're in a car? Yes. Can Luke Cage? No.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2258510)

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2258504)

I think cutting off some things makes sense. Like if a car blocks engagement and clear sight, for instance, it cuts off a lot of powers while leaving a lot of others.

That would be my barometer on a thematic level. Can Xavier command you if you're in a car? Yes. Can Luke Cage? No.

And that would seem thematically consistent with small structures, IMO. You can't engagement strike through even a porta john wall, but you could mind read through it, for instance.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

Okay, sounds like we're in agreement here. Would Joker being able to Reorganise Chaos from within a car be a concern? Arguably there are already figures who'd help his defences more, but I am concerned about anything that could make that little bastard more powerful (I have some bad memories :razz:).

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

The main issue was the Car being armor correct?
What if instead of rolling an unlockable attack die when the Car is destroyed, instead all excess wounds go to all passengers?
It is still armor but not nearly as good.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

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Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2258541)

That could be one way to do it, but how do you spread that? Other ways would include:

1) Increasing the damage involved in being wrecked (2 unblockables, 3 unblockables etc).
2) Making the 1 unblockable whenever the car receives a wound, whether destroyed or not (those bullets might just go through the glass; being punched by Superman might just hurt the occupants; ramming into the Hulk might result in whiplash from the impact. This might be my favourite; kind of feels more realistic than the current rule, honestly - being in a car doesn't make you invulnerable, but does provide some cover).
or;
3) Both (probably the most realistic, but also possibly too harsh).

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

No spread. Both passengers take the full damage is what I propose.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2258516)

Thematically he definitely should be able to create that level of chaos from a car, IMO (and a future Jokermobile!).

Mechanically/competitively it's a concern.

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2258545)

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Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2258541)

I really, really like option 2 above as the most elegant way to handle it. It's a very small tweak that I could see paying big dividends. And it really prevents it from being full armor. In fact, that'd weaken a lot of characters' defense when in it.

My only concern with that tweak is that it might go back to making riding in cars unappealing! I think it's thematic, though, as often being behind the wheel is MORE dangerous, not less.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

I like my suggestion because it is less variable. You know exactly how much protection you are getting. That should be easier to cost.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

There's a point to that. I kind of like the theme of taking damage while driving around too, though.

Any feelings on this @Ronin ? Or anyone else invested? I think there are some viable options here we could work with.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

6 Def and a 50/50 chance of taking a wound whenever the car does is still solid protection, just not completely reliable, which feels right for being behind the wheel, IMO, and protection isn't all it's offering. I don't feel like cars really need to be tanks or mobile bunkers - you're using them for the 8 Move and Hit and Run damage as much as cover. Might lower their cost, but that's no bad thing.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

OK, these will ultimately, I think, be applicable to the Enclosed Structure rules as well, once we change the word "Vehicles" a few dozen times, but I wanted to start here, since, you know, I haven't changed that word yet. :-P

Let me know if you all think the proposed changes work and if we can/should test that way. If so, we can resurrect the Porta Toilet and Sports Car both, I believe!

Spoiler Alert!

Changes to Vehicle Destructible Objects Rules:

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These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas: •Drafting Vehicles • Entering Vehicles • Occupying Vehicles •Partial and Full Cover • Moving Vehicles • Exiting Vehicles • Destroying Vehicles

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EXAMPLE 1: Vehicle Card Like the Official Destructible Objects cards, the Vehicle Destructible Objects cards that are affected by this rule set have a similar appearance but with a few inclusions.

Uniqueness: Whether a Vehicle is Unique or Common.

Occupancy: The number value indicates the number of figures that can occupy the Vehicle.

Size/Height: The Size and Height indicate the Vehicle’s actual size and height as per the standard Heroscape game mechanics, but also by their inclusion symbolise that this Destructible Object is compatible with the throwing rules from the C3G Destructible Objects rule set.

Partial Cover/Full Cover: This indicates whether a Vehicle offers Partial Cover or Full Cover for occupying figures.

Move: Because these Destructible Objects are Vehicles, a Move value is included to allow their movement across the battlefield as described in the standard Heroscape rules.

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ENTERING VEHICLES

A figure may enter a Vehicle by ending its movement on a space adjacent to the Vehicle if it meets the following criteria:

• Your figure’s size must be smaller than that of the Vehicle. Refer to Example 1 to identify the Vehicle’s size on its Army Card. NOTE - The size of a figure is located on the left hand side of its Army Card next to its height. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, and Huge.

• The current occupancy of the Vehicle must be less than the Occupancy number of the Vehicle. The occupancy designation on a Vehicle Army Card shows the number of figures that may occupy a Vehicle. A figure can only enter a Vehicle if that Vehicle has fewer figures on its Army Card than its Occupancy number (example: If a car has an Occupancy number of 2, but only has 1 figure placed on its Army Card, a 2nd figure can enter that car).

• There are no figures controlled by other players occupying the Vehicle currently. Refer to Occupying Vehicles for further details.

• Some Vehicles may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself. In this case the Vehicle can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing.

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DRAFTING VEHICLES

Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).

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OCCUPYING VEHICLES

Figures occupying a Vehicle are still considered on the battlefield, controlled by the Player whose Army they are in, occupying the same space or spaces as that Vehicle for the purpose of counting spaces for range and power selection, but are not affected by any special terrain rules for that space. Figures inside a Vehicle are considered adjacent to each other and the Vehicle itself, but are never considered adjacent to or engaged with figures outside of the Vehicle.

A figure occupying a Vehicle may still have Order Markers placed and revealed on its Army Card. If one or more of your figures occupies a Vehicle, you now control that Vehicle. However, Order Markers cannot be placed on the Vehicle’s Army Card.

If a Vehicle is ever suddenly occupied by figures of different players (e.g.: one of your figures is Mind Controlled by another player), the Vehicle is destroyed (see: Destroying Vehicles)

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PARTIAL COVER AND FULL COVER

As denoted in the left box of each Vehicle, Vehicles can be Partial Cover or Full Cover.

Figures occupying Vehicles with Full Cover are never in clear sight of figures outside of that Vehicle and never have clear sight on figures outside of that Vehicle.

Vehicles with Partial Cover do allow for clear sight between figures occupying that Vehicle and figures on the outside. Partial Cover Vehicles are those with windows or other openings that allow for clear sight. These clear sight openings will be marked on Army Cards by the green target points on the Vehicle’s Hit Zone. Clear sight can only be traced through these target points.

When a figure occupying a Partial Cover Vehicle targets a figure outside of that Vehicle, they should use the target point for that Vehicle to trace line of sight and range. When a figure outside of a Partial Cover Vehicle targets a figure occupying that Vehicle, they should use the target points for that Vehicle as the hit zone for any occupying figure.

Unless a special power indicates otherwise, a figure can only target one figure occupying a Vehicle at a time. If, however, a special power targets or chooses a space and the space the Vehicle occupies is chosen, the Vehicle and all figures occupying the Vehicle are affected.

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MOVING VEHICLES

In addition to the Size, Life, and Defense values contained on destructible object cards, Vehicles have a Movement value. After revealing an Order Marker on one of your Army Cards, instead of moving normally with all of the figures associated with that card, if one of the figures from that card occupies a Vehicle, you may move that Vehicle. You may only move a Vehicle once for each Order Marker you reveal. When moving the Vehicle, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: Vehicles and occupying figures do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks.

If a Vehicle would be moved, any figures occupying it stay in that Vehicle and are moved with it. If any of the occupants cannot be moved for any reason, that Vehicle cannot be moved.

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EXITING VEHICLES

After moving a Vehicle you control, you may place a figure from the Vehicle’s Army Card on an empty space and adjacent to the Vehicle. You may exit with any or all of your figures on the same turn. The figure that moved the Vehicle may now complete its turn. Remember, the figure that moved the Vehicle did so at the expense of its normal movement.

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DESTROYING VEHICLES

If a Vehicle receives enough wounds to be destroyed, any excess wounds beyond what it takes to destroy the structure are immediately inflicted on any figures on top of the structure and occupying the structure. After removing the destroyed Vehicle from the battlefield, place all figures that remain on top of the structure on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed structure. Figures moved when the structure is destroyed never take any leaving engagement attacks but will receive any falling damage that may apply.

Then place each remaining figure occupying the Vehicle on a space or spaces previously occupied by the destroyed Vehicle. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed structure cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)

I really like the concept to partial or full coverage as it relates to clear sight and things like windows. I think flame thrower type of SA will like roasting a car and everyone in it, which will be fun!

Not sure I agree with the part about Blob preventing Magneto from tossing a car around. In physics it's call relativity, Blob can't be moved relative to his seat in the car, but the car can be moved relative to the Earth. It the reason why you can jump up in down in a plane that's moving at 500 mph above the Earth without flying backwards. Being inside of the plane makes your movement, or lack of movement in the case of Blob, relative to the plane, not the planet.