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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

mac122 January 24th, 2013 12:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1750393)
It's a little weird that we're simulating sleep cycles for Thomas Hunter as turns or rounds in Heroscape. Maybe we're taking the wrong approach completely here?

I don't think it's completely wrong. Thomas would go to sleep for a short time, hours or even minutes, but gain experience over months or years in the other reality. So, taking him off the board for a turn, then coming back the next turn with more abilities fits the theme, IMO. It will make for challenging game play as you try to use OMs early to get him powered up while not neglecting the rest of your army.

Still not sure it meshes with Classic very well, but the Beast Boy model with 2 figures and cards could work.

Thomas Hunter
-low base stats
-Reality Shifting Ability
-Experience/Power Gain Mechanic

Thomas the Hunter
-warrior stats
-Reality Shifting Ability
-Healing

@LC: No worries. Not frustrating, just challenging and mind bending!

Balantai January 24th, 2013 12:45 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm not sure how the Beast Boy version of Thomas would work. Sometimes he'd be Thomas Hunter and sometimes he'd be Thomas the Hunter?

mac122 January 24th, 2013 01:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Let me work on that over lunch.

Lamaclown January 24th, 2013 01:50 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1750403)
Is there anything you really like or don't like at this point, Lama? You're really the expert here as far as theme goes.

I'm thinking through several things and will get back here later this afternoon/ this evening with some more thoughts.

Hmm... did I bite off more than i could chew with this guy? :ponder:

mac122 January 24th, 2013 02:18 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
OK. This is a liitle out there from a Classic Scape standpoint, but since we are a custom Classic Scape project, I think it might work. It also would allow LC's original 2-figure/card concept to be part of the design.

I'm looking at this from the viewpoint that Thomas Hunter is the main character and Thomas the Hunter (Thomas of Hunter?) is the alternate. It cost a bit of theme, but made it much easier to shift realities. Instead of changing locations and times when he shifts, he changes bodies in Valhalla - obviously some strange effect of the summoning process. OM control resides with Thomas Hunter's card. Thomas the Hunter can come into play once per round utilizing the X OM. After reverting back, Thomas Hunter gains an ability and extra attack and defense dice using Ability Glyphs. I lowered Thomas Hunter's base attack and defense back down since he could use his first turn to shift and come back with an ability and greater power.

Thomas Hunter
Human
Unique Hero
Protector
Inspiring
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 2 (1?)
Defense 2
Points ???

ALTERNATE REALITIES
You must draft Thomas the Hunter into the same army with this figure. Start the game with this figure on the battlefield. You can only control Thomas Hunter or Thomas the Hunter at one time on the battlefield. When Thomas the Hunter is destroyed, replace his figure with Thomas Hunter's figure. If Thomas Hunter is destroyed, Thomas the Hunter is destroyed.

SHIFTING REALITIES
Begin the game with 3 Ability Glyphs. After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, you may also reveal the "X" order marker on this card and replace this figure with Thomas the Hunter's figure and take a turn with Thomas the Hunter instead. Remove up to 2 wound markers from this card. At the end of your turn, replace Thomas the Hunter with this figure. Choose 1 Ability Glyph and place it on this card. Thomas Hunter adds 1 die to his attack and defense for each Ability Glyph on this card.


Thomas the Hunter
Human
Unique Hero
Warrior
Bold
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4
Points ???

EXPERIENCED LEADERSHIP

DOUBLE ATTACK

TACTICAL SWITCH (or some other cool combat move or special attack)


Ability Glyphs
EXPERIENCED LEADERSHIP
DOUBLE ATTACK
TACTICAL SWITCH (or cool combat move)
Ranged attack
Some other cool SA or special power

--------------------------------
Beast Boy's transforming powers for reference
Spoiler Alert!

McHotcakes January 24th, 2013 04:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm not sold on the concept of using two figures/cards for this guy. I mean Thomas Hunter and Thomas the Hunter are supposed to be the the same person right? So I don't think using two figures fits if its just the same guy.

I prefer the idea of focusing on just one of his identities, and that one identity gets stronger as opposed to just shifting between the two.

The way I see it would work is that if Thomas Hunter is on the battlefield in Valhalla and he gets in a fight with a Deathwalker, and try as hard as he might he can't bring it down he might jump into Thomas the Hunter who is years and planets away to figure out what to do. So he spends a week or two as Thomas the Hunter healing and figuring out how to build and use a ray gun or something, so by the time he jumps back to Valhalla only a few minutes have passed and he is now healthier and has a new ray gun to help bring down the Deathwalker.

Thomas the Hunter plays a big part in helping Thomas Hunter win the battle, but he shouldn't have a figure because he was never actually on the battlefield.

That's just my 2 cents about it all.

Confred January 24th, 2013 04:25 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
1) I like the idea of supplemental cards / power glyphs

2) At the end of every round, if no order markers were placed on Thomas Hunter this round, remove all wound markers from Thomas Hunter's Army Card and place an additional Thomas Of Hunter power glyph onto Thomas Hunter's Army Card.

3) Limit in number to power glyphs usable might not be needed, because he is sleeping an entire round as a cost.

4) Perhaps each glyph has a cost. Perhaps some glyphs are unique while others can be collectively gathered. I see some glyphs as simple as +1 Attack value.

Lamaclown January 25th, 2013 03:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think I am willing to go with just one figure in order to simplify matters (although mac's idea of using Beast Boy as a precedent for the shifting is a good idea).

I also like the idea of using the supplemental glyphs/cards. Thomas Hunter would probably be the one to go with rather than Thomas of Hunter.

I am fighting off a sinus infection that has got me pretty low right now so after I get my meds going through me I will post more.

Balantai January 28th, 2013 11:38 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I hope everyone had a nice weekend.

@ Lama: Can you post a draft of Thomas that you'd like to see get refined? I think we gave you a bunch of different ideas and directions and I think we're at the point where we need your guidance.

Lamaclown January 28th, 2013 12:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1752343)
I hope everyone had a nice weekend.

@ Lama: Can you post a draft of Thomas that you'd like to see get refined? I think we gave you a bunch of different ideas and directions and I think we're at the point where we need your guidance.

Sure thing!

Quote:

Thomas Hunter
Aquilla
Human
Unique Hero
Protector
Resolute

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2

UNDERESTIMATED
If there is at least one Treasure/Ability Glyph on this card, opponent's figures roll 1 less attack die when attacking Thomas Hunter with a normal attack.

COMBAT EXPERIENCE
Begin the game with 5 Treasure/Ability Glyphs. When Thomas Hunter destroys an opponent's figure, choose a Treasure/Ability Glyph and place it power-side up on this Army Card, to a maximum of 3 Treasure/Ability Glyphs. Add 1 die to Thomas Hunter's attack and defense for each Treasure/Ability Glyph on this card.

ALTERNATE REALITY
If Thomas Hunter receives enough wounds to be destroyed, you may reveal the X order marker on this card and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 5-19, you may ignore any wounds just received. If you roll a 20, ignore any wounds just received and remove all wound markers from this card.
I'm still uncertain on his base defense and the healing ability. I am not completely satisfied with the mechanic of the healing ability but it will be difficult to really get the theme.

I don't really want to go with a Thanos type of ability because it would result in Thomas being removed from the battlefield and replaced in a position different from where he was destroyed at. Neither of those would mesh with the theme of what happened in the books. Thomas always remained where he fell wounded (or dead) and always rose again from that spot (sometimes within seconds, other times a few days).

Two examples from the book...
Thomas was running from his pursuers. One of them shot him dead square in the back and saw him drop in the grass of the field Thomas was in. As the shooter watched, Thomas got up and continued running as if he was never shot.

In another instance, an assassin killed him at close range and Thomas was dead for a few days before coming back.

Anyhow, those are my initial thoughts (using mac's abilities).

Confred January 28th, 2013 01:27 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
What about:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3...7e39589401.png

Edit: Text:
LIFE 4
MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 1
POINTS 70

DREAM EXPERIENCE (edited since picture)
After every round before removing order markers, count the number of order markers on this card. Every round, after placing 1 or more order markers on this card, if 0 order markers were counted on this card last round, place an experience marker on this card.

COMBAT EXPERIENCE
Thomas Hunter adds 1 to his Attack and Defense values for every experience marker on his Army Card.

LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE (edited since picture)
Adjacent friendly figures add 1 to their Attack and Defense values for every 2 experience markers on this card if Thomas Hunter has 1 or more order markers on his Army Card.

DREAM HEALING
After a friendly figure takes a turn, if Thomas Hunter has no order markers on his Army Card, remove 1 wound from his Army Card.
-
An issue I have with his abilities as there are so many of them. When creating Super Hero Army Cards, one cannot list everything they can do. For the card, and for the game, some things need to be streamlined.

The above already has 4 abilities,
I think we are honing in on his three primary: 1) Underestimated and ever improving combat skills; 2) Leadership; 3) Healing/Resurrection/Ignoring wounds
Honorable Mention:

UNDERESTIMATED
Unique Heroes roll 1 fewer attack dice when attacking Thomas Hunter

ESCAPE INTO DREAM (Preferred over Dream Healing the more I think about it)
When Thomas Hunters receives any wounds, you may remove an unrevealed numbered order marker from his Army Card. If you do, ignore all wounds.~

DREAM WORLD
Thomas Hunter cannot be attacked if he has no order markers on his Army Card. If you have no other figures on the battlefield and use Dream World, lose the game.

Edit: Alternate Wordings:
DREAM EXPERIENCE
At the end of every round, if there are 0 order markers on this card, place an experience marker on this card.

McHotcakes January 28th, 2013 04:16 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1752408)
DREAM EXPERIENCEAlternate Reality
At the end of every round, if there are 0 order markers on this card, place an experience marker ability glyph on this card and remove 1 wound marker.

In order to get down to three abilities I combined his healing with this one, since I figured he could heal while in the alternate reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1752408)
COMBAT EXPERIENCE
Thomas Hunter adds 1 to his Attack and Defense values for every experience marker Ability Glyph on his Army Card.

I'm still a fan of having Thomas use ability glyphs to get new powers or items as the game progresses, so I changed it from experience markers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1752408)
LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE (edited since picture)
Adjacent friendly figures add 1 to their Attack and Defense values for every 2 experience markers ability glyphson this card, if as long asThomas Hunter has 1 or more order markers on his Army Card.

Same as above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1752408)
DREAM WORLD
Thomas Hunter cannot be attacked if he has no order markers on his Army Card. If you have no other figures on the battlefield and use Dream World, lose the game.

This is a good idea but I don't know how it should be put in considering Thomas already has so much going on in his abilities.


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