Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

1) Kratos climbing back is the games version of 'Continue'/Inserting quarters. Basically you die. Instead of just restarting at your last save point, he first has a short cinematic of climbing out. So instant probably would be fine.
CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18
When Kratos is destroyed and at the start of each of your turns after Kratos is destroyed, immediately roll the 20-sided die. ...


I don't think there should be further restrictions than reaching that 18 sticking point.


2) When I first read the need for a die roll for a mortal to use these items, I didn't realize it was only 1 wound. In my sample mock ups, I went Marro Stinger style and destroyed the figure on failure.
In other fantasy stories, characters have wielded items not intended for them to beat the bad guy to end with scorched hands, be in a coma, or some other non-destroyed state to which I say I could go either way with: 1 wound or destroyed.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

1) As per official rules, only Unique Heroes, and thus also Uncommon Heroes, are able to pick up Treasure Glyphs. Theoretically there could be a special power that enables a Common to pick up, but unless there is such verbiage the default state is only Unique Heroes may pick up Treasures and thus we don't need to include it on the card.
2) I thought the boots only gave Disengage? In retrospect, I'm fine with Phantom Walk because the wiki states the boots give him a charge attack that moves him through figures. From a strategy stand point, yeah he could kill all the trash, but he could also run through them to get to the meaty Hero on the otherside for the real goods.
2b) Move number value
2c) As per official rules Ancient Artifacts are unique to an army and you may not have more than 1 artifact with the same name. We've made "Godly" versions of such Glyphs.
GODLY ARTIFACT (v1)
Godly Artifacts are counted as Ancient Treasures in everyway except when a figure that is not a God or Demigod picks up a Godly Artifact, that figure must immediately roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 5 or less, destroy the figure.
GODLY ARTIFACT (v2)
Godly Artifacts are counted as Ancient Treasures in everyway except when a figure that is not a God or Demigod picks up a Godly Artifact, that figure must immediately roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 5 or less, inflict 1 damage to the figure.
GODLY ARTIFACT (v3)
Godly Artifacts are counted as Ancient Treasures in everyway except when a figure that is not a God or Demigod picks up or starts a turn with a Godly Artifact on its Army Card, that figure must immediately roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 5 or less, inflict 1 damage to the figure.
GODLY ARTIFACT (v4)
Godly Artifacts are counted as Ancient Treasures in everyway except when a figure that is not a God or Demigod picks up or starts a turn with a Godly Artifact on its Army Card, that figure must immediately roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 5 or less, destroy the figure.
GODLY ARTIFACT (v5)
No template available. Each power must be specially worded.
Godly Artifacts are counted as Ancient Treasures in everyway except after a figure that is not a God or Demigod uses a special power on the card of a Godly Artifact they must roll the 20-sided die or take 1 wound/be destroyed.
Each power on such cards will be specially worded to reflect this.

Quick Notes
 

A better way to phrase it for that one last hurrah is something like

When Kratos is destroyed, if you have no other figures left in your army, immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus.



I like this template the best. (Not biased at all. :p, but it does reflect official Treasure Glyph verbiage the best)

To add phantom walk we just add in "can move through all figures". If we want the trigger to happen at the beginning of the turn or on glyph pick up we can have "At the start of this figure's turn" or "When this figure equips this glyph". I'll chime in more later.

~Dysole, uncertain if Ancient Artifact rules apply to these glyphs

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

1) I'll keep working on wording to mimic gliding, because I agree that not only is pure Flying powerful, the source has the wings only let him glide and slowfall.
2) Thanks, of those items I would remove Nemesis Whip; I've already done so in my personal files.
I beefed up Claws of Hades in my personal files to have two powers. Permanent - Add to your Climb From Tartarus rolls; Temporary - previously destroyed figure Mind Shackle. Even if that version doesn't make it, I like the idea of some of the Ancient Artifacts/Godly Artifacts being one-uses
3) :thumbs: Remember, these are items from the gods. Why risk death for +2?
4) The gods ARE brutal :P But seriously, if Lead Design wants it at 1 wound, that's ok with me. Pain on pickup is far easier to template.
5) I actually have and like the concept better than my original. Some changes: Reduce base damage to 3 or even 2 so that it's not strictly better than Blades Of Exile. Note: Nemean Cestus isn't strictly better because it is only range 1. Then, now here's the cool part, Kratos is all about keeping the combo alive, instead of automatic wounds, add automatic skulls to whatever is rolled, so even though the base Attack is lower, with some good 20-sided rolls we'll have more consistent 2 skull rolls. Drop range to 7 because 9 isn't necessary and we need Kratos to keep rushing forward and not play the sniper game. Anything lower than 7 probably wouldn't feel Godly. Maybe 6. But that's the lowest absolute. Lava Resistant exclusion was a cute touch.
PERMANENT GLYPH
Special Attack - Range 7. Attack 3 Special.
When attacking figures without the Lava Resistant special power, roll the 20-sided die for additional fire damage. If you roll a 15 or higher, add 1 skull to whatever is rolled and continue rolling the 20-sided die to add skulls until you don't roll a 15 or higher.
6) I'm almost certain Kratos will annihilate the Hydras. Even at my proposed Defense 3.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I wouldn't say "additional" fire damage. Saying "fire damage" is enough.

Re: Quick Notes
 

1) I'm not sure "if you have no other figures left in your army" is necessary with "immediately" in place, unless you want to spend the extra lines to allow the immediately to only work if all the other guys in your army are destroyed and not simply always and every time he is destroyed.
1b) I once proposed having a line read something like, "If all your figures are destroyed, you lose the game at the end of the round instead of immediately if at the end of the round all your figures are destroyed." Which would force you to wait all the way until your next turn but also keep you in the game, giving you 1-2 chances to continue before losing while letting your opponents prepare for those 1-2 turns. The downside is that could perhaps be cumbersome on gameplay.
2) Are you implying that the Climb should only happen upon destruction and not at the beginning of each turn? That could be interesting and also make the power more distinct from Reject By Death.
CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18 (v2)
If Kratos is destroyed, before removing his figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, immediately place Kratos on the lowest level empty space on the edge of the battlefield and remove all wound markers from this card.
>Note: "edge" needs sourcing
> Upon further thinking, I prefer this version even if that's not what you originally intended. It keeps the battle action oriented.

3) I agree with your style of wording if we decide to go with punish-use vs punish-pickup. Either way can be argued for bestiness. Pickup: Gods strike you down for insolence; Use: Gods, notorious for being tricky and spiteful, let you use it and carry it around like a treasure, but strike you down when you're least expecting it.
4) I plead for Godly Artifacts/Treasure to be indeed (Ancient)Artifacts and not simply Treasure. Artifacts make the most sense because these are unique items and the rules are already in place for unique items. Think of our godly versions as a simple hack, kind of like how Uncommon items hacked Unique items or the swamp water hacked water. They are literally the same thing except of the God/Demigod favoritism.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

0) Kratos' art is looking slammin' on that Utgar background!
1) Grish's Glide isn't perfect, but some of it can be salvaged. It's getting late, but I'm working to make it work.
2) I agree with others that the spacing needs to be fixed between the title and text of the powers.
3) I see that you used Tagawa Samurai as your template here, and I definitely appreciate the footwork. Yet I think Life Drain is the more updated form of phrasing:
BY THE GODS
Each time Kratos destroys a Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact on this card. A maximum of 5 Godly Artifacts may be placed on this card.
> Sourcing needed to doublecheck against official figures even more recent than those released that use Life Drain.
3b) I don't think the Glyph placement on death is needed because it's already spelled out in official rules unless we absolutely want him to spill his loot Sonic the Hedgehog power ring style. With the line removed the Kratos player places the Glyphs one at a time and if the same space is chosen the latest Glyph overrides the previous so if he was fully kitted he would actually only drop the 1 for others to pick up, but it also means that he cannot get them back, unless ... they can be chosen again? ..which is why this line was added?>Needs sourcing.
BY THE GODS
Each time Kratos destroys a Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact not yet placed with By The Gods on this card. A maximum of 5 Godly Artifacts may be placed on this card.


BLADES OF EXILE
4) I don't like the changes to Blade Of Exile at all.
4b) Range: Kratos' chains have a considerable range, more so than normal Reach. I've been thinking of them as Range 4. Range 2 is such a pitfall from that. Maybe 3, but please not 2.
4c) Normal only: Kratos is all about doing combos. God Of War III boasted seamlessly transitioning from weapon to weapon without stopping. So yeah, normal or special attack. The weapon-inspired Godly Artifacts have been all designed with these combos in mind. The limit breaks the character so hard.
4d) Phrase order: First comes the power, then comes the limits, then comes the restrictions. The power is it enables multiple attacks, the limit is the range, in this case it improves the range limit. The restriction here is correct at the end, of 4 attacks.
4e) Combo limit: With that said, I say again, Kratos is all about doing combos, even if that means attacking 40 times. That's why he's such a b/a and I originally had him at Defense 3 saying his best defense is a good offense.
4f) Negation: Seems kind of tacked on, but these are the blade of Exile. They go with him everywhere, even to death where souls are stripped bare, even in the River Styx that destroys all other Godly Artifacts. These stay with him, even throughout negation. His rage is so powerful, he undoes such sorcery. All other powers could be lost, but not these. (Imagine a level where Kratos has to punch his way through lol). With that said, while I love the idea of him always keeping, if the consensus is to remove the negation protection, I won't fight it hard.


CLIMB FROM TARARUS
5) Since you posted this, discussion with Dysole has lead to a variant that's worthy of note, so I'll only go into the curveballs.
5b) Placement: "place Kratos on an empty space on the battlefield that is not higher than the base of any other figure on the battlefield." I suppose this is done to dance around the officialness of "edge". If we don't want him to be restricted to the edge of the known world, I suppose it could be "place Kratos on any empty lowest-level space on the battlefield (not adjacent to any opponent's figures or Glyphs)." Unless of course the phrasing we're trying to dodge is "lowest level"...
>sourcing needed on the mentioning of lowest level. The change is an interesting one I'm willing to play with, but it feels oddish.
5b.2) You've inconsistently capitalized "battlefield": It's not capitalized, per Airborne Elite
> Sourcing needed to see if an official figure more recently released than the Airborne Elite use "Battlefield"
5c) Bonus: "If Kratos is destroyed and there are no other figures you control left on the Battlefield you may immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus one additional time, adding 2 to your roll." The change I had mentioned revolved around the roll only happening when he is destroyed and not at the beginning of turns to further distance itself from Rejected By Death.
CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18
If Kratos is destroyed, before removing his figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, immediately place Kratos ...
-
The extra chance is kind of interesting. I haven't backread to see the logic behind it. But if you want that chance, I can dig it. But since we fought to have the roll be higher rather than lower, I question the change of heart.

Thoughts Fired
 

I was under the assumption that the extra wording was to allow some kind of last hurrah. The round thing feels...weird to me.

I don't know what's most thematic but whatever is we should go with that. "Edge" and "lowest level" are not terms I believe are defined. I believe "lower level" is and has precedent but not "lowest level"

I have no complaints about making them Ancient Godly Artifacts. My big complaint with the current wording on that glyph is it does not follow Heroscape Treasure Glyph or Ancient Artifact Glyph precedent. (All T-Glyphs spell out what the power does rather than saying. Figure gains X power)

I want to make sure that this does what it does. It reminds me a lot of the C3G power Expert Climbing which had a particular intention but actually wasn't what the text stated.

That looks fine and works. I just went with Tagawa Samurai wording since they put markers on the card.

Rules for Treasure Glyphs are that once the Hero carrying it is destroyed the glyph is placed on that figure's space. If the figure is carrying more than one, that player picks one and places it and destroys all others.

That could work. I'm not sure I like the phrase of "not yet placed" but that's more that it sounds weird to me than a rules or precedent issue.

I can see a boost to 3 range but I'm hesitant about 4. If we can word it to say normal or special attack we should be fine. I added in the limit to simply reign him in. It is one of those things where given his attack value he could smash through the entire army. I can see that being thematic but it will definitely beef up his cost.

Now negation. I can't see a good way to word it. Negation gets rid of both grapple gun and Thorian Speed. No figure has an ability that protects their abilities from negation. It's one of those things where gameplay needs to trump theme.

As far as I know "lowest level" has no precedent. I don't know why I capitalized battlefield. Everything else, I have no issue with.

~Dysole, thinking that covers everything

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok guys, just got home from work and am about off to bed just wanted to say make a comment.
@Confred I personally have never played in a game with Treasure Glyphs so was unaware that only Unique/Uncommon Heroes could only pick them up. So of course we will drop that.

Also on the whole taking damage thing on the Godly Artifacts. I can undestand rolling for damage after using the weapons, but I could not imagine once you got the Boots of Hermes, for example, a turn when you would not use the bonus movement. So why not roll for damage on those when you pick them up...in othe words put them on. Just a thought.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I I was just about to suggest this when I saw this post. I might add that Capsocrates helped me a lot to get the wording down on that power. If you do model on it I'll be curious if you can find s better way to word it. I might add that, as written, the power has worked great for us. Good luck!

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Wow, tons of posting. Where to start. Altering the the text for the Godly Artifacts to specify ones that have not been picked up yet. I agree. Completely changing the range on the Blades of Exile, I'm not sold on it. The range of 2 via the reach is pretty thematic. Increase to the up/down limitations it reaches beyond hydras keeps it pretty even with hydras considering their height. I think the Blades themselves are right. If we want to give him a combo type deal with special attacks and normal attacks up to the maximum of 4 times, that would be fine. We just need to word it right. What I did not want to happen with that was him not ever using the Blades of Exile because he is using every other weapon instead every turn. Kratos Bread and butter is his Blades of Exile.
I like how we have the Climb from Tartarus. I like how he has to wait til the next turn. Not right then. The immediately if you don't have any other army cards left can stay or go. If you all would like, we can leave it at an 18 for his last hurrah as well.
For the Godly Artifacts, I would like them to wound the heroes trying to use them. It doesn't matter if they haul them around. Its when they try to use them they should get into trouble. I like God/Demigod. Deity being a false god.:) Thats pretty funny.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Yeah lots of posting last night because I finally got to get on my computer! Smart-phones are great and all but quoting and really getting into it is a hassle.

If you want Godly Artifacts to be punish-use, I can dig it, but I'd like it consistent throughout all the Artifacts.
GODLY ARTIFACT~
Godly Artifacts count as Ancient Artifacts in every way except after a figure uses a Godly Artifact, if that figure is not a God or Demigod, roll the 20-sided die. If roll 5 or lower, inflict 1 wound to that figure.
-
Boots Of Hermes (v1)
GODLY ARTIFACT
PERMANENT POWER~
Before moving with this figure, this figure may use Boots Of Hermes to add 3 to its Move value and for the duration of the turn this figure is never attacked for leaving an engagement.
-
Boots Of Hermes (v2)
GODLY ARTIFACT
PERMANENT POWER~
Before moving with this figure, this figure may use Boots Of Hermes to add 3 to its Move value and for the duration of the turn this figure may move through all figures and is never attacked for leaving an engagement.

Range of Blades Of Exile
You say Reach has precedent for Range 2. That is true, but Reach gives us so much more, it gives us a template. The 2 is the least of it. A figure could have REACH 20 for example. Limiting Blades Of Exile to Range 2 just because Reach is range 2 is silly to me. I can agree with Dysole to have them at Range 3 instead of 4. Those things sling out pretty far, further than a polearm or even Hydra strike.

Relevance of Blades Of Exile
You wanted to force the player to choose either Blades or any other special weapon to make Blades not obsolete. If allowed both, the Blades still have relevance because they are the cause of the combos and it can be visualized as his chains being involved even when the other items are used. But even still, the special weapons have been crafted so that the Blades aren't specifically trumped.
Nemean Cestus: +Damage -Range
Bow Of Apollo: -Damage +Range
Blade Of Olympus: +Damage -Range, special requirements to make it not trump Cestus
Power level of the Blades themselves is another reason to have them greater than Range 2. Range 3 or 4

I've modified my original wording to reduce the range to 3:
BLADES OF EXILE
After attacking with a normal or special attack, if Kratos rolled at least 2 skulls, he may continue attacking with normal or special attacks until he does not roll at least 2 skulls. If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add 2 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack. Blades Of Exile cannot be negated.

"_ cannot be negated" is so elegantly phrased that even if there is no precedent, I think it should be OK. Again, the Exile Blades are designed to be with him always and work always. It's a special attribute of the blades themselves - Moreso even to Sgt. Drake's jamming Grapple Gun. :P

Whiffs should be the determining factor for ending a combo with Kratos.

With the Godly Artifacts, should be create and use exactly 5? or more than 5 to give Flexibility.
I like the 3 weapons,
which gives 2 more slots.
Boots
Fleece
Wings
Claws
Head (Probably weakest/most extraneous of the 3 extras)