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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

mac122 March 1st, 2013 03:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
HIDE 11
If an opponent's figure begins it's move non-adjacent to Katniss Everdeen and ends it's move adjacent to Katniss Everdeen, roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 1 from your roll for each additional time Katniss Everdeen uses Hide in the same turn. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.

Does it fit better here? Don't adjustments to the roll usually come right after the power references rolling the d20 and before checking the results?

Balantai March 1st, 2013 03:39 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1773682)
HIDE 11
If an opponent's figure begins it's move non-adjacent to Katniss Everdeen and ends it's move adjacent to Katniss Everdeen, roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 1 from your roll for each additional time Katniss Everdeen uses Hide in the same turn. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.

Does it fit better here? Don't adjustments to the roll usually come right after the power references rolling the d20 and before checking the results?

You are correct, Mac. It's better there.

Confred March 1st, 2013 05:27 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I was purposefully steering this away from Disappear. The idea is not that she is escaping, but that she is never found in the first place. Having her figure be on the battlefield represents where the opponent thinks she is. When investigated, she poofs because she actually wasn't there - which is why no (leaving) engagement strikes. If we want an escapey ability, we should save "Hide" for something else.

I do like that the previous post sparked discussion, because a point of all my posts is to pull out ideas from the group.

Subtracting to the roll after each Hide attempt is indeed mucky.
I'd rather have either her roll fail result in her not being hidden anymore or not have a fail result and let her continue using this power for each different figure.

HIDE 11
...you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-10, Katniss has visible hitzones and cannot roll for her Hide power again this turn. If you roll 11 or higher, immediately move Katniss up to 3 spaces. When moving with Hide, Katniss doesn't take any engagement or leaving engagement attacks and after moving she has no visible hitzones this turn.


Should her move be instead a placement effect?
* She shouldn't be affected by leaving an engagement
* or entering one
* Slowed by Air Elementals
* Or Cyber Claws

Thanks

mac122 March 1st, 2013 05:43 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
From the Hunger Games Wiki
Quote:

When the Games begin, Katniss gets away from the Cornucopia quickly, getting into a minor tussle with the District 9 boy over a backpack which ends when the boy is cleaved in the back by Clove. That pack was key to survival because it contained: a sleeping bag, an iodine (water purifier) dropper, water bottle, crackers, beef strips and night glasses.

Katniss is almost killed in the Cornucopia when Clove aims a knife at her head; she blocks it by using her backpack and earns a good knife as a result. In the film, after she escapes the bloodbath she briefly bumps into Foxface but does not attack her, and the two run away in different directions. Over the next few days, Katniss moves further and further away from the Cornucopia, though she is substantially slowed down by a lack of water. She nearly dies of thirst before she finds a small pond to drink from, stumbling into it while she thinks of camouflaging her bright orange backpack, so it wouldn't draw too much attention. The next morning she is awoken by a wall of Gamemaker-made fire, including fireballs that are flung at her.

Katniss runs from the forest fire.
Added by BrokenSphere. She survives this but suffers minor burns on her hands and a severe burn on her calf. She goes to sleep and is woken by the sound of footsteps. Katniss is briefly chased by the Career pack, consisting of Glimmer, Marvel, Cato, Clove, the girl from District 4, and Peeta, and escapes up a tree. Cato tries to climb up after Katniss, but crashes to the ground because he is too heavy for the branches. All of the Careers are too heavy to climb after her and settle to wait for her to come down. Rue then appears high up in the tree and points to the tracker jacker nest above Katniss. Tracker jacker venom is deadly, and if you don't die from it, you suffer horrible hallucinations and sickness
In this synopsis of the action of the Games, Katniss is constantly in danger and escapes. IMO, this fits very well with the way we have Hide worded.

Edit: I really don't think the subtraction mucks anything up. There are other powers that adjust the d20 as the turn goes on - Zettian Targeting comes to mind off the bat. Sorry, bad example - it's not a d20 power.

Confred March 1st, 2013 05:51 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
If that is the case, to which I do not object, the name "Hide" should be adjusted.
Perhaps the original "Escape" was best.

mac122 March 1st, 2013 05:55 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I have no problem renaming the power.

Balantai March 1st, 2013 05:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1773747)
If that is the case, to which I do not object, the name "Hide" should be adjusted.
Perhaps the original "Escape" was best.

How about Escape and Hide? Or Run and Hide?

Confred March 1st, 2013 06:03 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
"Escape/Run and Hide" sounds like a hybriding of two powers
Escape, Run, and Hide are all good names for powers. Their future usage is probable. I'd want "Run and Hide" to somehow incorporate both of those powers.
I wouldn't want to create a disconnect

JC McMinis March 1st, 2013 06:43 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
How about we call it Run For Cover

Sock March 1st, 2013 07:04 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1773682)
HIDE 11
If an opponent's figure begins it's move non-adjacent to Katniss Everdeen and ends it's move adjacent to Katniss Everdeen, roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 1 from your roll for each additional time Katniss Everdeen uses Hide in the same turn. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.

Does it fit better here? Don't adjustments to the roll usually come right after the power references rolling the d20 and before checking the results?

What if Hide/Escape was triggered with the X marker like Crag of Steel?

"At any time during your opponents turn, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker that is on this card to activate Hide. When Hide is activated, you may immediately move Katniss Everdeen up to 3(4?) spaces. Katniss Everdeen can Hide only if she ends her move not adjacent to any enemy figure."

With a d20 role the opponent will keep attacking her because he knows he has a 50% chance to hit. With the X marker she has a 100% chance to activate, but only once, so the opponent will only target her if she's the only one in range or if he has her surrounded. This feels a bit more thematic because it makes her a natural survivor compared to your other units.

I'd remove the disengage and 'is no longer targettable' parts of her power to discourage running towards the enemy instead of away - she's not good at dodging enemy attacks, she's good at avoiding danger.

Lamaclown March 1st, 2013 07:26 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
It seems that we are moving more and more into the territory of the convoluted powers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1772868)
Hide 11
If an opponent's figure begins it's move non-adjacent to Katniss Everdeen and ends it's move adjacent to Katniss Everdeen, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.

This power captures the essence of who Katniss is while also remaining simple and enjoyable.

What we are starting to do is trying to get Katniss' actions translated into a power rather than the essence of the character. The essence is that she was good at escaping and hiding. It happened in different ways at different times. Which of those times do we base the power on or do we go for the essence over the actions?

I know what is in my head but I don't think it is coming out just right. Anyhow, I hate to see this simple and thematic power get bogged down when it isn't absolutely necessary for it to capture who Katniss is.

McHotcakes March 2nd, 2013 02:13 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1773804)
It seems that we are moving more and more into the territory of the convoluted powers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1772868)
Hide 11
If an opponent's figure begins it's move non-adjacent to Katniss Everdeen and ends it's move adjacent to Katniss Everdeen, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.

This power captures the essence of who Katniss is while also remaining simple and enjoyable.

What we are starting to do is trying to get Katniss' actions translated into a power rather than the essence of the character. The essence is that she was good at escaping and hiding. It happened in different ways at different times. Which of those times do we base the power on or do we go for the essence over the actions?

I know what is in my head but I don't think it is coming out just right. Anyhow, I hate to see this simple and thematic power get bogged down when it isn't absolutely necessary for it to capture who Katniss is.

I agree with Lamaclown. I think the power is fine enough as it is, although I wouldn't be opposed to changing the name of Hide to Escape.


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