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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred February 28th, 2013 05:21 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
HIDE 11
If Katniss Everdeen is not adjacent to any opponent's figures prior to an opponent's figure ending its move adjacent to her, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-10, Katniss Everdeen's has visible hitzones and cannot roll for Hide again this turn. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move her up to 3 spaces. If she ends that move nonadjacent to any opponent's figures, ignore all leaving engagement attacks and she has no visible hitzones this turn.

mac122 February 28th, 2013 05:40 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I really think the current version of Hide works fine. A figure moves adjacent, she tries to run away. If her roll is high enough she moves and that figure doesn't get another shot at her. If it's a squad, the first figure moves adjacent and Katniss runs. The next moves adjacent and she runs again. Rinse and repeat as needed. Any time her roll fails, she gets attacked. Ranged figures don't have to worry about engaging unless she's adjacent to cover.

Balantai February 28th, 2013 05:43 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think Confred's concerned with allowing Katniss to move and hide after she's already been in combat with another figure. Unfortunately, for sake of playability and trying to keep the power less complex, I think it would easier to sacrafice that theme.

JC McMinis February 28th, 2013 08:18 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I agree Balantai. Let's not overcomplicate it.

Confred February 28th, 2013 10:58 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
It was an attempt to improve upon
Quote:

If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.
Often powers begin streamlined and then breaks are revealed and more words are added. In particular with my unpublished rewording, moving 3 and then not being able to be attacked. Doesn't make sense against squads - she should be ran down and cornered, to fit the theme of the character and her canon. So the power developed a timing protection within the turn, protection until you roll for hide again that turn, which would either renew or dismantle previous protections. This lead to musing, well what would happen if her hiding failed? Sure she wouldn't be able to move and the figure that found her be able to attack her. But what about every other figure? Surely the first would alert her position to the second and third. HS figures often have a fail option. I worked in the idea of her being completely exposed once her hiding was deactivated, including Forest Cover.

mac122 February 28th, 2013 11:43 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1773287)
It was an attempt to improve upon
Quote:

If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.
Often powers begin streamlined and then breaks are revealed and more words are added. In particular with my unpublished rewording, moving 3 and then not being able to be attacked. Doesn't make sense against squads - she should be ran down and cornered, to fit the theme of the character and her canon. So the power developed a timing protection within the turn, protection until you roll for hide again that turn, which would either renew or dismantle previous protections. This lead to musing, well what would happen if her hiding failed? Sure she wouldn't be able to move and the figure that found her be able to attack her. But what about every other figure? Surely the first would alert her position to the second and third. HS figures often have a fail option. I worked in the idea of her being completely exposed once her hiding was deactivated, including Forest Cover.

I think I see what you're trying to do, but I feel the way you go about it overcomplicates the power. However, your post does show that we need to examine how the power affects squads a little closer to make sure we understand how it works. Then we can either OK it or make an adjustment.

Here's a scenario:
Minions of Utgar are coming after Katniss. Minion 1 flies into engagement. Katniss rolls a 4 and Hide fails. That Minion can't attack yet since it's still your opponent's move phase. Minion 2 flies in and Katniss rolls an 8, which means Hide failed again. Minion 3 flies in and Katniss rolls a 14 and runs away to Hide. Now, even though Katniss' Hide roll failed twice, none of the Minions can attack.

Are we OK with her failing 2 rolls but still getting away on the third? From what I understand about the character, she would have continued to try to get away, so maybe it fits. In this scenario, she finally did before the Minions could bring their axes to bear. She seems to have had several close shaves.

Or do we need to add a fail provision into Hide preventing her from rolling again if she fails?

Personally, I like the scrappy, never-say-die attitude that shows through in Hide as we have it written now. Even though her enemy is trying to surround her, she never gives up.

JC McMinis March 1st, 2013 12:00 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think the power is fine as is. In the scenario you posted above mac I picture it like this, sort of it all taking place at once. Katniss sees the minions coming at her so she tries to get away. The 1st failed roll is the 1st minion cutting her off. The second failed roll is the same. But on the third roll she is faster than the minion and gets away.

McHotcakes March 1st, 2013 12:41 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmcminis (Post 1773358)
I think the power is fine as is. In the scenario you posted above mac I picture it like this, sort of it all taking place at once. Katniss sees the minions coming at her so she tries to get away. The 1st failed roll is the 1st minion cutting her off. The second failed roll is the same. But on the third roll she is faster than the minion and gets away.

Agreed

SirGalahad March 1st, 2013 01:43 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Sounds good to me.

mac122 March 1st, 2013 10:26 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Was thinking some more about Hide and its effect on squads. It seems like it should be harder for Katniss to escape a coordinated attack by a whole squad of figures. What if we make it incrementally harder to get the roll each time she uses Hide in the same turn?

HIDE 11
If an opponent's figure begins it's move non-adjacent to Katniss Everdeen and ends it's move adjacent to Katniss Everdeen, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may move Katniss Everdeen up to 3 spaces as long as she ends her movement unengaged and that figure cannot attack Katniss Everdeen this turn. Subtract 1 from your roll for each additional time Katniss Everdeen uses Hide in the same turn. When Katniss Everdeen moves with Hide, she does not take leaving engagement attacks.

Balantai March 1st, 2013 11:34 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I like that addition. It doesn't muddy up the power and addresses the theme concern.

JC McMinis March 1st, 2013 02:59 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I agree.


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