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-   -   The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55039)

Scapemage September 6th, 2018 10:14 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
I had forgotten about Lady Blackhawk's intent with all of this stuff (funny since I designed her). I would mind allowing her to start with a VDO or some other method of saying she gets a boost when a VDO is in your army.

Ronin September 6th, 2018 10:50 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Personally, I don't care one way or the other about Lady Blackhawk. I was doing this to open up design opportunities.

Redesigning and reevaluating her into a 300 point design that starts with a VDO sounds like a pretty comparable amount of work to what we have ahead of us at this point testing the two extant vehicles, though. Not a reasonable alternative to fiddling with some wording.

I'll try to get something official together on the wording front in a little bit, though.

quozl September 6th, 2018 11:06 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
The whole reason we're giving points to VDOs is so they can start in your startzone. We do not need to add starting VDOs to cards if we give VDOs point costs.

Ronin September 6th, 2018 11:11 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2219254)
The whole reason we're giving points to VDOs is so they can start in your startzone. We do not need to add starting VDOs to cards if we give VDOs point costs.

I believe japes was suggesting we scrap the whole thing and just update Lady Blackhawk instead.

japes September 6th, 2018 11:24 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
I'm completely aware that it's possible I'm over reacting. However, I don't want to have to worry about testing future designs with a car. VDO are cool and we occasionally use them but I don't want them to be necessary.

so looking back to this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2219221)
I'd rather have simpler vehicle rules that didn't hugely affect design space than make a bunch of card updates so that in the future we always have to work around vehicles when designing support powers.

Yes simple and not limiting is better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2219221)
That said, sure, let's poll it out.

A. Make card updates and vehicle rule updates necessary to allow figures to use special in vehicles
B. Bar special powers from being used by figures in vehicles

A. What specific updates. How do we decide what can and cannot be used from a car. Thematically it sounds weird that Wolverine can't heal while in a car and Professor X can't use his telekinetic bonding from inside the car and I personally don't want to update a ton of cards just to allow some things to work in a car.

B. If we bar special powers then the people that are upset about Lady Blackhawk now have reason to be more upset since her power can't be used at all now since it's specifically for driving VDO yet when she's in a VDO the power is negated.

I'm just not understanding what's being proposed anymore.

Lazy Orang September 6th, 2018 11:30 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
As much as I don't like B, I think it's fairly clear that Lady Blackhawk's power will be an exception to that rule. Special powers are stated in the rulebook as ways to break the rules of the game, after all, and if it's clear a rule is being ignored for a power to work, that's a power doing its job. Powers aren't supposed to work after a figure is dead, but that doesn't stop Grundy, or Thanos, or Jason.

Ronin September 6th, 2018 11:33 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by japes (Post 2219259)
A. What specific updates. How do we decide what can and cannot be used from a car. Thematically it sounds weird that Wolverine can't heal while in a car and Professor X can't use his telekinetic bonding from inside the car and I personally don't want to update a ton of cards just to allow some things to work in a car.

B. If we bar special powers then the people that are upset about Lady Blackhawk now have reason to be more upset since her power can't be used at all now since it's specifically for driving VDO yet when she's in a VDO the power is negated.

I'm just not understanding what's being proposed anymore.

A. A lot of updates, probably. You wouldn't be updating things to let them work in cars, you'd be updating powers like Reorganized Chaos and Destiny's d20 boost to keep them from working in cars, because a lot of powers get really juiced if you can use them from the safety of a vehicle. (And 'should this be usable in a car' would be a concern for all future support powers.)

B. I've said from the start that we're talking about a general prohibition, not hard-and-fast negation. Same as destroyed figures. Destroyed figures can't use special powers, generally, but when special powers tell you to do something after the figure is destroyed, you can do it. Vehicles rules would say you can't use special powers, generally. But when a special power says a figure occupying a vehicle can do something, they can do it.

quozl September 6th, 2018 11:48 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
I thought we had already ruled that figures' powers do not work when they are off the battlefield (except of course when their powers say they do). To enter a VDO, the figure is removed from the battlefield. So there's no change needed.

Ronin September 6th, 2018 11:52 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2219271)
I thought we had already ruled that figures' powers do not work when they are off the battlefield (except of course when their powers say they do). To enter a VDO, the figure is removed from the battlefield. So there's no change needed.

Maybe I missed something in the Rip/Kang discussion, but I (and seemingly dok) came away with the opposite idea.

I certainly wouldn't mind that ruling, though. I'd thought that was the case for a while before the Rip/Kang discussion, and that's how I was testing the Sports Car initially.

quozl September 6th, 2018 11:57 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Yeah, I was noticing some confusion there. We need to settle that first.

A point to consider: if Joker and the like are overpowered in a vehicle, they would also be overpowered (perhaps even more overpowered!) as Nick Fury's drop team.

Ronin September 6th, 2018 11:58 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Nick can only Drop Agents, though. Kang (II) is the generalist version you need to worry about!

quozl September 6th, 2018 11:59 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Good call. I forgot about it being restricted to just agents.


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