Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

There is room on the card for 3 powers. The font ends up about the same size as the 2nd and 3rd Blobs.

I know Jack used firearms later on, but I'd prefer to eliminate the range increase in the SA. It feels more like a special power that has been jammed into the SA.

For Parley, I believe we need a range restriction. If the figure is clear across the battlefield, Jack would not be able to "Parley" with them.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

One thing that bothers me about Jack, is he doesn't seem to be a very formidable fighter. It's evident in the movies that he is a excellent swordsman. Just throwing this out there. We've done treasure glyphs for other figures in this project. What if Jack's Compass was a treasure glyph instead of a power on his card? We could replace the power with a close combat power that represented his swordplay.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like that idea mac.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think 3 attack is a fairly accurate depiction of his skill. 3 attack to me suggests someone who is a very good fighter, not amazing, but very good. I think that is where Jack is at. Keep in mind he has no "Bruce Lee" moment, where everyone marvels at his fighting ability as he single handedly takes out 20 men. Most of Jack's fights are usually very hard fought and he mainly relies on trickery rather than actual skill to defeat his opponents.

To quote the first film.
Jack- "Put it away, son. It's not worth you getting beat again."

Will- "You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement! In a fair fight, I'd kill you!"

Jack- "Well, that's not much incentive for me to fight fair then, is it?"

I think Parley would be enough to keep Jack alive while he slowly pokes away at his attacker.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about adding to his stats or making him a one man army. I'm just suggesting adding a power that enhances his attack or defense against an adjacent opponent

Something like this
or this
or perhaps an adjacent version of One Shield Defense

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

User CP has been slacking with updates! I missed all of these responses. I'm already late for work so I'm copy pasting from my notebook my thoughts before the above were mentioned.

TREASURE COMPASS
Before moving for any reason, Captain Jack Sparrow may use his Compass to end his move on a Glyph by adding 2 to his Move value. When using his Compass, Captain Jack Sparrow may ignore the special powers of terrain.
-
RESERVED BULLET SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 5.
At the start of the game, choose a Unique Hero an opponent controls. Captain Jack Sparrow may only attack the chosen hero with his Reserved Bullet Special Attack. After using his Reserved Bullet Special Attack for the first time, Captain Jack Sparrow adds 4 to his Range value and cannot attack with his Reserved Bullet Special Attack for the duration of the game.
-
PARLAY
If any enemy figure ends its move adjacent to Captain Jack Sparrow, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 17 or higher, you may move either Captain Jack Sparrow or the enemy figure 4 spaces and end the turn. Figures moved with Parlay are never attacked for leaving an engagement and may move through all figures. If the enemy figure is a Pirate, add 5 to your roll.

Disclaimer: These are rough drafts; wordings aren't perfect on rough drafts and are often wordier than necessary. Any differences in wordings from other members are by coincidence, but if by chance mine are better the changes shouldn't be overlooked.

Life 4
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 2
Defense 5
- He's basically a ratborg hero

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I just watched the first three pirates movies the other day. Jack hardly uses his gun in fighting. I do not think we need to add 4 to his range after using reserved bullet s.a.
I think we should make the compass a treasure /equipment glyph and then how about this seeing as he does not fight fair.

You Cheated (name is negotiable)
Jack Sparrow is not affected by any ability that would inflict automatic damage.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@JC - I think automatic damage would be one of the only ways to get past his Parlay.

I'm fine with having his compass as a Treasure Glyph

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sorry for my absence this past week or so, but moving on here is where I am at so far.

Life 4
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 3

-Turn the compass into a treasure glyph

-Reserved Bullet
Range 5. Attack 6.
At the start of the game chose a unique hero an opponent controls. Jack Sparrow may only use this attack against that hero, and may only use it once per game.

Dropped the adding of range after he uses this attack. Also dropped the attack to 6. I still want this attack to be fairly powerful, it is his one chance at revenge after all.

-Parley
Whenever an opponent reveals an order marker for a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Captain Jack Sparrow, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13-19, that figure's turn immediately ends. If you roll a 20, you may take temporary control of that figure's Army Card and all figures on it. Immediately take a turn with that figure's Army Card. At the end of that turn, control of that figure's Army Card returns to the player who controlled it before Parley. All Order Markers that were on that figure's card will stay on the card.

I like this version of Parley. I know Confred was concerned about Jack being to similar to Red Skull but I don't really see it. Manipulating his enemies to his will is in character for Jack, and its only a 1 in 20 shot of doing so anyway, so its not like it will be a regular thing for the figure.

-Tricky Defense?
When Jack Sparrow is attacked with a normal attack by an adjacent figure and at least 1 skull is rolled you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-11? roll defense dice normally, if you roll 12 or higher? then Jack ignores all skulls rolled and you may place him on any empty space adjacent to the attacking figure. Jack will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

This is just a quick idea on how to make Jack a more formidable fighter. Theme wise its basically just Jack confusing his opponent and using their confusion to move into a better position.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like what you have so far, though 13-19 might be a little too good.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Are we still working on anything here?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I am still game if everyone else is.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Here's the list of designers from the first post:
@Balantai
@Lamaclown
@JC McMinis
Taeblewalker
@mac122
@Machineking
@McHotcakes
@Confred

Right now we have a design in the works by McHotcakes. My blob design was the last one finished, so it doesn't seem like we're following any particular order anymore. I propose that we try to finish Captain Jack Sparrow, and then anyone who wants to work on a design speak up, and we'll try to come up with marching order so to speak. We can look back through the thread and see who did the most recent designs; those people (myself included) will have to wait until other people have had a chance.

In the event that @McHotcakes doesn't chime in any time soon, we can finish his design for him and then choose someone else to go next.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Works for me, @Taeblewalker

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Great! That makes three of us so far.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm here. Haven't been on in a while, but I'm up for starting the project up again.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Excellent rousing of the troops there Taeblewalker!

I don't like Tricky Defense + Parlay; one or the other I say, and I further say Parlay.
If I may argue further still, Attack2 Defense5. The high defense will guard him from ranged and represents his snakiness, his tricky defense as they say.
The lower Attack is as others mentioned his role isn't the fighter, it's the objective taker and the chaos inducer. Lowering the normal Attack rating also makes the higher special Attack value seem more relevant, more exciting to try and pull off (although I think 6 might be too high as 5 will hurt almost everything).
After he fires his bullet, he can dance at defense 5 and cause a muck.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What about his range? I know we argued over whether his normal range should be 1 or 5. Once he uses his special bullet, does he get range?

Edit: I reread the special attack and see, as written, his range goes up to 5 after using the bullet.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

This looks like a really fun project :) still looking for people to give input?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sure! If you want to join you're welcome. Just reread the last few pages and get up to speed on Captain Jack Sparrow. Then join in the discussion!

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm not opposed to just keeping Parlay and raising the defense to 5. I'm not entirley sure thats the best way to go but I can be persuaded.

I think I'd keep his basic attack at 3 though. He's not a powerhouse fighter, but he is formidable. Also...

I am going to argue for keeping 6 for his SA. Yes 5 can hurt just about anyone, but the point of the reserved bullet wasn't just to hurt, but to kill. He held onto that bullet for ten years for the sole purpose of killing the man who betrayed him. Hurting someone just doesn't seem enough for the SA. Also since its a one and done ability, I don't think 6 is too big of an issue.

JC McMinis convinced me that Jack doesn't use his pistol enough for it to be part of his normal attack. I think maybe keeping his normal range at 1 and just ignore increasing his range after the SA.

The more the merrier :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

How about having the first shot with the reserved bullet be 6 dice and then go down to 3 dice after that for the SA? This allows him to still have a ranged attack.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That could work.

Reserved Bullet Special Attack
Range 5. Attack 6 or 3.
At the start of the game choose a unique hero an opponent controls. Jack Sparrow may only use his Reserved Bullet on that chosen hero and roll 6 attack dice. After using this attack once, or after the chosen hero is destroyed Jack Sparrow may use his reserved Bullet on any figure and roll 3 attack dice.

The wording is of course open to change.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Does this mean that you want to be a designer on the team? We can add you do the rotation.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Not right now, I'll just continue spectating.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What I meant was more like this:


Reserved Bullet Special Attack
Range 5. Attack 6.
At the start of the game choose a unique hero an opponent controls. Jack Sparrow may only use his Reserved Bullet on that chosen hero. After using this attack once, or after the chosen hero is destroyed (or becomes friendly??), subtract 3 from the attack value of this special attack.


EDIT: Upon re-reading it, the two are pretty much the same thing with different wording...

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The way you've worded it the power still only works on the chosen hero even after the first shot. You would need to add that it can be used on any figure after the first shot is fired. McHotcakes' wording takes care of that.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I still think we're missing the boat (pirate ship) on theme giving Jack a ranged special he can use on any turn. I'd much rather see a powerful Reserved Shot SA or special power and give Jack good melee attack stats with a Parley power that gets him out of trouble.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'd vote for the powerful Reserved Shot too.

While the latest version is more useful it seems to fit his theme less and I thought with someone like Jack we'd focus on theme as the driving point. We go the entire first movie just waiting to see him use that shot and it winds up killing Barbosa. I honestly don't think he needs a ranged attack other than a one time use.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok, for the sake of theme, and simplicity, let's just make the SA a one and done power

Reserved Bullet(or Shot)
Range 5. Attack 6.
At the start of the game choose a unique hero an opponent controls. Jack must target the chosen hero when using Reserved Bullet Special Attack. Jack can only use Reserved Bullet Special attack once per game.

How's that sound?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think that's very fitting and I like it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

So, is this about where we are with Jack...er Captain Jack Sparrow?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I believe we settled on Aquilla.

I would say 5. 6, to me, suggest someone abnormally fast. Jack is just a normal guy.

I know Confred suggested 5 to make up for his lack of a defensive ability, I'd be fine with 4 but I think we should leave it open for discussion.

I bumped up the roll to 15, due to concerns that 13 might be too easy to roll.

The only other thing I think we need to tackle is whether or not Jack's treasure compass should be an ability or its own treasure glyph.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I was thinking Aquilla, but I wasn't sure. I'm fine with the adjustment to move and the change in Parley. However, with the change in the roll for Parley, 4 defense may not be enough to keep him around. 5 might be better.

IMO, the compass would work best as a glyph. It will keep Jack's card simpler. I'd like to see a Glyph of Aztec Gold, too. I could see it giving the the holder a Rejected by Death style power.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What about Undead Resilience rather than Rejected by Death? The pirate's from the movie didn't die and come back, so much as just shrugged off damage that would otherwise have killed them.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Here is a pirate custom I did I was thinking what I used for treasure map may work for the compass?

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps3ti9m0bg.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I was picturing the scene in the attack on Port Royal where Will "kills" a pirate only to have him show back up. Something like Undead Resilience would work, too.

We did something similar for Indiana Jones
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...1.jpg~original

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Okay so how about this?

Heart's Desire?
At the start of the game place the Jack's Compass Treasure Glyph on this Army Card.

Jack's Compass
Permanent Treasure Glyph
This figure may add 2 to their move as long as they are unengaged prior to moving and end their move on a glyph.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I definitely like it too, that should be fun to play with.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

So

Name: Captain Jack Sparrow
General: Aquilla

Life 4
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 4

Points: ???

Reserved Bullet Special Attack
Range 5. Attack 6.
At the start of the game chose a unique hero an opponent controls. Jack Sparrow may only use this attack against that hero, and may only use it once per game.

Parley
Whenever an opponent reveals an order marker for a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Captain Jack Sparrow, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15-19, that figure's turn immediately ends. If you roll a 20, you may take temporary control of that figure's Army Card and all figures on it. Immediately take a turn with that figure's Army Card. At the end of that turn, control of that figure's Army Card returns to the player who controlled it before Parley. All Order Markers that were on that figure's card will stay on the card.

Heart's Desire
At the start of the game place the Jack's Compass Treasure Glyph on this Army Card.

Jack's Compass
Permanent Treasure Glyph
This figure may add 2 to their move as long as they are unengaged prior to moving and end their move on a glyph.

Then if you guys want a Cortez Treasure Glyph here's a rough draft.

Treasure of Cortés
Permanent Glyph
If a non-Undead non-Soulborg figure lands on this glyph, that figure's owner may place a cursed gold token on that figure's Army Card. If you do then all figures on that Army Card are now Undead and gain the Undead Resilience special power.

I decided a normal glyph would make more sense than a treasure glyph, because A)The chest with the treasure never moved in the movie, and B) The curse is non transferable. If it was a treasure glyph then someone else could pick up the glyph and in turn get cursed, which wash't how the curse worked in the movie.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

If the treasure glyph was just specifically a coin then it would work that way. Jack picked up a coin and subsequently became cursed.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

But he picked the coin out from the chest. Will and Elizabeth both handled a coin someone else took and remained uncursed.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Well then what it comes down to is the old struggle inherent in "game not a simulation." Do we make it more complicated trying to simulate the effect perfectly yet still satisfy the rules of the game, or do we go with a more simple interpretation that works better within the framework of those same rules?

Honestly
 

It's not too much more complicated and the permanent glyph way allows a squad of something to have it. That said, giving something like 4th Mass undead resilience might be a terrible idea.

~Dysole, lurking

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I honestly don't think making it a normal glyph is that much more complicated than the treasure glyph route. If a figure lands on the Cortez Gold glyph they basically choose to change their species and gain a power for the rest of the game.

Its strait forward, get cursed or don't. I actually think its less complicated than having to worry about other figures stealing the treasure glyph, and the curse, from one another.

Plus making the glyph stationary could lead to some fun play scenarios imo.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think a stationary glyph works well for squads, but poorly for heroes.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Which is mostly my concern since heroes are the people you see in the movies as portrayed as cursed more often than not.