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-   -   The Book of Death Mask (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=59400)

SirGalahad August 22nd, 2021 09:08 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Or maybe "After each figure's turn, if . . . ."

japes August 24th, 2021 12:00 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2477727)
(Allowing that this isn't really a Ronin LD, my understanding of our intent here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGalahad (Post 2477645)
The "during that turn" seems like it could cause confusion. Is it referring to the Criminal/Assassin's turn,

Yes

Quote:

Death Mask's turn,
Yes.

Quote:

or the player's turn?
No.

Quote:

Potential questions (with my understanding of the answers). If these aren't what everyone else is thinking, please advise.

The unblockable against the Target only gets rolled if you take the additional turn with the Assassin/Criminal and the Target received a wound during either the Assassin/Criminal's turn or Death Mask's turn?
No. No activation required, happens at the end of each figure's (Death Mask and anyone activated with CMG's) turn.

Quote:

Target = Superman

OM1 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who wounds Target. Death Mask attacks but does not wound Target. Roll the unblockable?
Roll at the end of Lex's turn. Do not roll at the end of Death Mask's turn.

Quote:

OM2 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who does not wound Target. Death Mask attacks and wounds Target. Roll the unblockable?
Do not roll at the end of Lex's turn. Roll at the end of Death Mask's turn.

Quote:

OM3 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who does not wound Target. Death Mask engages Target and uses BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, wounding Target. Roll the unblockable?
Same as previous.

It seems like you're interpreting what's in the SP:

This is exactly the intent I understood as well so we are 2 for 2 so far.

japes August 24th, 2021 12:02 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGalahad (Post 2477741)
Or maybe "After each figure's turn, if . . . ."

So like this...

CRIMINAL MASTERMIND GUY
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Death Mask, you may take a turn with a Unique Hero you control that is an Assassin or Criminal. You may not take additional turns with figures other than Death Mask. After each figure's turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, roll an unblockable attack die against the Target.

That does make a lot of sense.

Ronin August 24th, 2021 01:53 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Works for me. Shorter. Updated the SP.

Obviously haven't got to the initial yet - weekend didn't quite shake out like I planned. Should be soon though.

Ronin September 20th, 2021 12:12 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Death Mask

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Death Mask @420, Venom (Gargan), Doc Ock (I), Firefly (1000) vs Fantastic Four (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Death Mask @500, Venom (Gargan), Purple Man, Clock King (1000) vs Professor X, Blob, Jean Grey, Phoenix, Angel, Jubilee, Destiny (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Had a more ambitious plan for this initial, but I'm already embarrassingly late, so no sense in dragging it out!

He's fearsome - the regeneration power is super potent as-is. You end up having to dogpile him to take him down.

Arkham September 20th, 2021 12:16 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Initial Posted)
 
Looking good!

Ronin September 20th, 2021 01:00 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Initial Posted)
 
Let's send him to public testing

May as well get some other hands on him, start getting some more impressions.

tcglkn September 20th, 2021 01:03 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE Testing)
 
Yea

Arkham September 20th, 2021 01:11 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE Testing)
 
Yea

Arch-vile September 20th, 2021 01:56 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE Testing)
 
yea

Tornado September 20th, 2021 08:29 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE Testing)
 
Yea

Ronin September 20th, 2021 10:44 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE Testing)
 
This passes

Thanks folks!

Arkham September 21st, 2021 03:28 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Death Mask

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Deathmask(500), Clock King(90), Sandman(210), Kitana(185), Doc Ock I(215) (1200)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Cap(220), Moon Knight(150), Ronin(180), Daredevil II(200) (1200)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Deathmask(500), Rhino(220), Lady Deathstrike(240), Parasite(240) (1200)
vs.
Wasp(160), She-Hulk(370), Wolverine(270), Spider-Woman(250), Moon Knight(150) (1200)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
500 feels too low still. Rather than shooting his points higher and higher, I'd recommend removing the blanks from the healing option. Let blanks be nothing. That alone would have been enough to keep him reasonable, IMO. As-is, there's never a reason not to use the power anytime he has 2+ wounds as it's 100% gain unless he's unable to move and not adjacent to anyone. Another option would be not allowing him to move or attack in order to use it. Couldn't really go wrong with both tweaks, but I'd say removing the blanks is the more important one to feel like you have more of a chance going up against him.

Balancing aside, he's definitely fun and ruthless. :up: Not sure if it matters, as he's his own leader, but should he maybe be an Event Hero just to avoid any boosting strategies or synergies using him to some degree?

Ronin September 21st, 2021 10:45 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
I'm cool with those tweaks. :up:

Ronin September 21st, 2021 01:00 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Went ahead and updated the SP with the suggested BAMN tweaks - personally I'm not 100% sold on him as an Event Hero. We can go for it if I'm on an island there, but I do have a preference for Unique.

Arkham September 21st, 2021 01:12 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
No real preference on the Event vs. Unique, just was curious.

japes September 21st, 2021 01:51 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
no preference there either.

I like the changes as well.

EDIT: actually Event Hero does make sense the more I think about it. Put me as slight lean that way. @Dr. Jekyll what say you.

Dr. Jekyll September 21st, 2021 11:06 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
I would prefer him to be a Unique Hero. I just don't see him as an Event Hero honestly.

Arkham September 22nd, 2021 02:47 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Death Mask

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Deathmask(500), Clock King(90), Sandman(210), Kitana(185), Doc Ock I(215) (1200)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Cap(220), Moon Knight(150), Ronin(180), Daredevil II(200) (1200)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Deathmask(500), Rhino(220), Lady Deathstrike(240), Parasite(240) (1200)
vs.
Wasp(160), She-Hulk(370), Wolverine(270), Spider-Woman(250), Moon Knight(150) (1200)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
​The tweaks definitely brought him down a peg or two. He's still a decent offensive threat, but his healing wasn't as crazy, and not being able to move forced him into less than ideal positioning at times, even forcing himself to wound his allies this go around which was nice to see be a factor. I wouldn't be surprised to see him come down a bit in points now, but overall with these 2 close games, I feel he's much more tuned to the right range.

Ronin September 22nd, 2021 11:13 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Thanks Ark!

Arkham October 10th, 2021 05:57 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Tests:
Quote:

Originally Posted by toyhandle
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Death Mask

Map: Mountain Spring
Units:
Death Mask, Winter Soldier, Absorbing Man
Darkseid (II), Parademon x6 1,000pts

Results:
My notes got really loose after round 3, but basically, Darkseid rolled out the Parademons, who were struggling to wound Absorbing Man and Death Mask. Eventually they chipped Absorbing Man down, but not before Absorbing Man could put 2 wounds on Darkseid. Winter Soldier then started taking pot shots at Darkseid, before getting tied up with Parademons, and being killed by Darkseid. Darkseid ended up falling to a half-life Death Mask. 
Never got to use By Any Means Necessary, the bonding, and stats were solid.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Death mask, Sandman, Lady Deathstrike, Absorbing Man, Winter Soldier, Stan Lee 1500pts
Trigon, Spawn, Hellboy (II), Blood Demons. 1500pts.
Results:
Trigon fell by the end of round 2 and then Death mask fell Splash’s next turn at the start of round 3.
Never got to put any targets on DM’s card, or roll an unbloackable more than once. Never used By Any Means Necessary, so once again he was more of a strong bonding unit.
It’s very possible Splash would have led with Spawn earlier in the game, but having Spawn as the Target is what made Splash decide to lead with Trigon instead, making Trigon more vulnerable than he would normally be, and going down before he could do any Demonic Reality Shifting.*
*Splash says he was happy I went with Spawn as the Target.
I totally forgot I had Stan Lee, and wished i had used him to save Death Mask.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


SPLASH’s post-game thoughts:
Death Mask feels worth his points. Parademons were too weak to do much in game one, and game two I should've drafted more Blood Demons, but other than that and discounting luck I think they were relatively even games. Death Mask didn't feel too exciting as the main power was just the bonding (although the power names are funny) and we never got to see the last power come into play. I realize now the teams I drafted were counterintuitive to his first power

Map: Alkali Laki
Units:
Death Mask, Winter Soldier, Sandman, Stan Lee 1000pts
Orig X-Men
Results:
I led Sandman along the Dam-top because I didn’t want Jean throwing him off. I totally forgot to use Stan Lee (as I did in my second game with Splash), so it could possibly have been a bigger win for Death Mask. It was somewhat slow, because I was making sure to place Deathmask in spots where he could heal, and any wounds could be placed onto Destructible Objects instead of himself or his allies. 
X-Men might have done better to focus completely on one Criminal/Assassin before going for Death mask, and then try to destroy Death mask from Range.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!



Map: Island Plane Crash
Units:
Death Mask, Winter Soldier, Firefly, Talon 1000pts
Reed, Sue, Silver Surfer, Iceman. 1000pts
Results:
FF win. Island Plane Crash doesn’t have as much in the way of DO’s as Alkali Lake for Death Mask to avoid wounds with. I played him a little more aggressively, but probably should have been even more aggressive with Winter Soldier. Opted to use Firefly for Unblockables before Reed could tie him down, but Winter Soldier died before doing much of anything. More importantly, Surfer would have been a better Mark to start with. Talon was pretty useless, and I should have placed him adjacent to Iceman to tie him down at least. With Talon, I figured I wouldn’t mind too much if I had to put a wound onto him with Death Mask.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Seems balanced to me. There’s a lot of 500pt builds of assassins or criminals that would fill out the second half of a 1000pt army with him.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Fun, straightforward character. Not hard to kill, so sometimes retreating to heal is his best option. If he's wounded, unengaged, with no surrounding Destructible Objects, he be a sitting duck.

Thankfully his bonding allows him to distract while that happens.
 It’s interesting, Take Down the Big Boys kind of means he might not get that extra life against an Army like Darkseid, where Darkseid will likely be the last to go down. In more even-life armies, there’s more choice. Death Mask was hanging on by that extra Beast-given life against Cyclops. I was pretty unlucky with my unblockables, but that’s entirely luck, and they were nice to have.


Ronin October 13th, 2021 07:29 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Results from Fresh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshFoods
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT : DEATH MASK


Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map : Ravaged Road (No Glyphs)
Units :
Death Mask (500), Lady Shiva (175), Batman I (200), Typhoid Mary (120)
= 1000


VS.

Ultraman (440), Superwoman *Lois* (250), Owlman (210), Leatherface (95)
= 995


Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map : Ravaged Road (No Glyphs)
Units :
Death Mask (500), Metallo (290), Lady Deathstrike (240), Tomoe Gozan (170)
= 1200


VS.

Thanos (500), Proxima Midnight (350), Gamora II (300), Wasp(50)
= 1200


Spoiler Alert!


Thoughts on the Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, and Draftability : This fella is very strong, both as a leader and a fighter. 500 points feels like it’s more than appropriate. Criminals have a pretty deep synergy pool already, but I think Death Mask works well as a final boss kind of leader.

General Thoughts on the Tested Unit : Super fun, and very threatening. You want to kill him to avoid his bonding and autowounds, but the threat of By Any Means Necessary had me scared to engage him at points. 6 Move/6 Range lets you use his attack while staying fairly safe as well

I played him against what felt like two solid but not outstanding armies, but Death Mask feels a little stronger than average after his two wins, but not to a degree to cause concern IMO. I'd also note my Criminal Mastermind Guy luck was better than average.


Arkham October 14th, 2021 12:43 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Looks pretty good to me.

Ronin October 14th, 2021 11:26 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Yeah, I think we're in good shape, but I'll give folks* a little time to look over the results and weigh in.

*Especially @Dr. Jekyll @japes

Dr. Jekyll October 14th, 2021 07:22 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
I'm digging where he's at right now. Looks like the tests went well even with the lack of use of BAMN in Splash and toyhandle's games.

japes October 25th, 2021 11:22 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Looks fine to me. Maybe a tad strong but he's at a good number for army building. I think he hits all the notes we were aiming for.

Ronin November 3rd, 2021 12:19 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Public Testing)
 
Alrighty, let's send him to editing.

Lord Pyre November 3rd, 2021 12:21 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Final Editing)
 
Yea

MrNobody November 3rd, 2021 01:00 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Final Editing)
 
Death Yeask

He's gonna like Klaw with his Ambitious personality, is that fine?

japes November 3rd, 2021 01:05 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Final Editing)
 
yea

IAmBatman November 3rd, 2021 03:27 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Final Editing)
 
yea

Ronin November 3rd, 2021 06:57 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Final Editing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2487448)
He's gonna like Klaw with his Ambitious personality, is that fine?

I think we can change that up if we're worried about pushing the pairing too hard.

This passes

Thought I had some mini pics somewhere but now I can't find them... will get art assets up tonight.

Ronin November 3rd, 2021 11:45 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Final Editing)
 
Updated with pics.

Arkham November 5th, 2021 07:24 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Final Editing)
 
Cards are up.

Ronin November 5th, 2021 08:07 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Final Editing)
 
:up:

japes November 6th, 2021 11:24 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Final Editing)
 
Like them!

Ronin November 6th, 2021 07:12 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Final Editing)
 
Let's send him on deck

Arch-vile November 6th, 2021 09:01 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
yea

Lord Pyre November 8th, 2021 11:06 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
Yea

tcglkn November 8th, 2021 11:33 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
Yea

LordVenoc November 8th, 2021 11:57 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
Yea

MrNobody November 8th, 2021 12:05 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
Yea

I’m sure you’re excited you got to use as Ronin-y a power name as Criminal Mastermind Guy on a card.

Ronin November 8th, 2021 08:32 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2488150)
Yea

Iím sure youíre excited you got to use as Ronin-y a power name as Criminal Mastermind Guy on a card.

GandalfNod.gif

Down to @Arkham

Arkham November 9th, 2021 04:03 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
Yea

IAmBatman November 9th, 2021 07:28 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE On Deck)
 
This passes. #1304

tcglkn November 15th, 2021 08:43 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask
 
Is there a reason we went with Mutate here instead of Mutant like the other two Wade Wilson designs?

Ronin November 15th, 2021 08:53 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask
 
I mean, he's not a mutant, so there's that. :p

Don't remember if it specifically came up, but the only real argument for making any version of Wade a Mutant is that he tends to hang out with that crowd, which this version doesn't.

MrNobody November 15th, 2021 08:56 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask
 
I always kinda took DP II as a card that could be played as a Mutate or Mutant. Like it looks like the official records say Mutant, but he's kinda a "screw it, play how you want" type deal and we were clearly being a bit cheeky with the whole deal.


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