Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

From the Air Elemental's card:

Swirling Vortex
When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of an Air Elemental you control...

It seems to be referring to a space when it references "2 clear sight spaces." If the Air Elemental can see the space, then figures are affected. So, if Indy can see the space and it's in range, he can swing to it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Odd. If I have a figure that is near a wall that is 15 levels high and I can see the side of the space, does that mean I have clear line of sight of that space?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

If you can see at least part of that spaces hit zone than yes, you... oh, wait, nevermind.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma, deep-fried in a vat of confusion...:confused:

The Air Elemental's card refers to clear sight spaces to a space, but I could not find a definition or clarification for that - only definitions of clear sight to a figure. While we aren't concerned with 15 levels in this situation, the 6 levels we are concerned with would still put the top of the space above Indy's eye level. I think I'll post a question in the Question Dump to see what others have to say.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

It would make sense that you would need to be able to see the top of the space. I'm curious to hear this answer myself.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I just responded over in the Questio Dump, but I think the AE's card is still referring to clear sight to a figure. It's worded a bit contradictory to that, but it seems it has to be worded that way in order to emphasize that the figure has to stop moving as soon as the AE has clear sight to it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

If your interpretation is correct, and I have nothing to say it isn't, then does anyone have another suggestion for Whip Swing?
-If "clear sight" to a space requires a figure on that space, then obviously the space is not empty and Indy could not swing to it.
-Removing the "clear sight" restriction would allow Indy to swing through terrain, obstacles, etc., which is not the intent of the ability.
-Removing the clear sight restriction then adding wording to prevent swinging through obstacles would make the ability too wordy to fit.
-The older version based on Swing Line works, but is too wordy to fit on the card with the other 2 abilities.
-We could remove the part that allows Indy to take someone along for the ride, but then he loses points off his "Hero" card.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think we need the 'wordy' version to work. Thus, we need to make changes to the card. So what do we remove?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I see 2 options: remove the "Carry" portion of Whip Swing or remove Whip 12.


Indy with "Carry" removed from Whip Swing



Indy with "Carry" included in Whip Swing, but without Whip.


Removing "Carry" takes away from the Heroic theme of Indy, while removing Whip 12 reduces his combat effectiveness. If we took away Whip 12, we would need to bump Indy's attack up and perhaps his defense.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm cofused. Why can't Indy swing over a 20 high wall as long as his final spot is no more than 6 levels above his original placement. I think the 'ignore elevations' part needs the clarification.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

If we make it an unengaged figure then we can remove the last line. I see no need for stealth swing.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

We do need to adjust the height of what Indy can swing over due to the length of his whip. 6 is probably too short, but 20 is probably too high. Indy should be able to swing over walls equal to or less than his height plus the length of the whip. He's probably about 6' - 5 levels (Medium 5). The whip is about 10' - about 8 levels. So, if we fudge the length of the whip a bit, we could set it at 15 levels.

Since Whip Swing is based on Swing Line, here is the Swing Line wording(from MSE) and then an adjustment for Whip Swing.
Adjusted to Whip Swing
Is that better?

Edit: Indy used the whip to get himself out of jams. I'd like to see the no leaving engagement attacks left in.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Any other comments about Indiana Jones?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Nope, this thread seems like it was tazed and paralyzed (like the kid running on the baseball field)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Mac,

Can you post the proposed final card?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Unfortunately had to leave out the part of Whip Swing where Indy could save Marian.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think 90-100 would be good, comparing him to Carr.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think 90 is closer, but maybe even a little lower. Another close comparison is James Murphy. Indy has -1 Life, +1 Move, -2 Range, +1 Attack, +2 Defense. They both have Whip. Murphy has an area effect SA while Indy has more mobility and Glyph grabbing powers.

80?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That seems about right.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

80 sounds fine. Anyone want to get started on the next design?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

This project just doesn't seem to wanna stick. I'll continue running it if there's a desire, but I'm not sure there really is a desire.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

It has been kinda dead around here lately. I'm game to stick with it if there are enough others. If not, then it was fun while it lasted.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm still interested in the project, but I too feel that there isn't a whole lot of interest at the moment.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I am still interetsed but time is an issue right now. I am even on hiatus from C3V and SoV until the summer is over.

Come the end of August I hope to be back on 'scapers.com and as involved as ever.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Why don't we see who has a character to post, instead of necessarily going in order? We can give people a few days to respond, then take them in priority of hmwho's turn was next.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sounds good to me. I'm completly open to any changes. In addition, we need someone else to take some ownership of this project. I especially like our Star Wars thread because people like mac122, Granite-M and Porkins have really taken over when I'm not around. We need that here.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The interest is there, it's time that's a factor here. I'm taking 12 credit hours over the summer but I'm willing to pitch in where I can.
The interest will return we get going.
See above.
Priorities. I'm with you dude. ;)
Actually, I'm next in the line up and am ready, willing and able to get this jumpstarted again. I'll post my idea a little later to give you guys time to put your think caps on so I can eat dinner. :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Good to hear from you, Wulf!

I look forward to your idea post.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok. Here we go. My pick...
http://imgs.abduzeedo.com/files/arti...redator/21.jpg
hehehehehehehe

For those of you interested, I'd like to use the Predator found in the Alien Queen set (since I have that one:)). If anyone can find a pic of that mini for reference, that'd be great.

Sooooo... Ideas?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ah, our friendly neighborhood Predator. Nice choice, Wulf.

Rough ideas:
Gotta have some stealth abilities: some sort of combination of Stealth Dodge, Phantom Walk, etc. A part of that could be that he can't be attacked if he has no unrevealed order markers.

Hit and run style attack.

In the original movie, he generally did not attack unarmed people. Either he can't attack figures without OMs or rolls fewer dice against them. The lower attack might be better since there are numerous opportunities for figures to take turns without OMs.

A self-healing each round or after destroying an opposing figure.

If there was room on the card after any other cool stuff, a self-destruct style ability (Last Laugh?).

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Self-Destruct could cover everything in three clear sight spaces, but could only work if he one life left.

He could also be unable to target non-adjacent figures in water.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

For those who do not know, the Predator figure I am talking about has an extender staff in one habd. I'd like to incorporate that into it as well. And I'm definately digging the self-destruct idea.
Say one more day for comments and then get some stats on this bugger.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I only know predator from the movies. I have no idea what the staff should do as a weapon.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

nice pick

As for his abilities...

I think that self-destruct should be considered.

And as for attacking only armed targets...

Worthy Prey
When [Predator] attacks an adjacent figure with one or more order markers on its army card, add X to [Predator]'s attack value.

Then, he could have a range attack of 2-4, and add 2-3 to his melee attack with worthy prey.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sorry it took so long to post this bad boy. Been a busy weekend. Anyway...
Comments?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Looks nice.

Comments:

It should be an Uncommon Hero, not a Common Hero.

Could we give it a name. I know that the Predators are divided into at least 2, if not more, clans. I just don't like the fact that its name and class are the same.

Why Jandar? I've always thought of the Predators as more of a Aquilla figure myself, due to their clan structure and their predatory nature (personally, I don't think Jandar would summon anything that kills people for the heck of it).

For Predator's Speed and Predator's Stealth, I would take the Phantom walk aspects of Predator's stealth and incorporate them into Predator's speed, as Predator's Stealth takes place in two different phases (movement and attacking/defending).

Self-destruct looks fine, the precentiles will have to be ironed out.

Should the predator have a ranged attack? I know the Preadator from the second movie used a ranged weapon.

I also think we should all take a look at some of the quality Predator customs out there, namely Annerios's and Sherman Davis's

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Here's my take on it:

Predator
Vydar

Yautja
Unommon Hero
Predator
Honorable
Medium 6

LIFE 6
MOVE 6 Spaces
RANGE 1 Space
ATTACK 3 Dice
DEFENSE 4 Dice
POINTS (120ish?)

I lowered the Defense, in light of Predator's Stealth. I also increased his Life to 6, since he is pretty tough.


PREDATOR'S STEALTH
This Predator can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. When this Predator rolls defense dice against an attacking figure that is not adjacent, one shield will block all damage. This Predator may not use this ability on a water space.

I thought Predator's Speed wasn't important enough to try to fit it onto the card.

WORTHY PREY
When this Predator attacks an adjacent figure with one or more order markers on its army card, add 3 to this Predator's attack value.

SELF-DESTRUCT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3. Attack 2.
After moving and instead of attacking, if this Predator has one life left, it may choose to self-destruct. Roll two unblockable attack dice. All figures
within three clear sight spaces receive a wound for each skull shown.

This latter power needed to be cut down, since it takes up so much of Deathwalker 7000's card. This simulates it nicely, clearing out squads but not potentially devastating many heroes at range.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That's not a bad idea, though I would fix DW7K by giving him Disengage.
That said, I don't think it's a good idea for the Predator.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think he needs a ranged attack. I remember him standing in a tree and blasting somebody with an energy weapon (Carl Weathers?). Unless this is a Predator from another movie (after the dreadful Predator 2, I gave up on seeing any of the others).

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sorry it took so long. This past week was HELLISH at school. Anyway, minor changes in bold above. Not quite sure about which general just yet, but can figure it out later.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Looking good, Wulf.

I like the addition of the ranged attack. At first, I was concerned that Self-Destruct might be too powerful with Range 3 and 2 unblockable dice. But, the 1 Life remaining restriction will make it very situational. Still, maybe Range 2 would be better.:shrug:

This one is tough to pick a General.

My vote would be Einar or Vydar - and I give Einar a slight edge.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like the range boost, and I would lean toward Vydar, just for the tech.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I'm still leaning towards Aquilla. Even though he's tech-reliant, his predatory nature meshs with Aquilla's other predators.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Hi, im back from VAY-k i like this idea but id like him to have something instead of worthy prey. If you can remember he has a weakness to cold temperatures. In the movie they put him in a cold room but the AC (if you will) shuts of and he gets better and kill a lot of marines.

Cold Blooded: If Predator is on an ice or snow tile, or adjacent to a glacier he loses 2-3 defense.

With this ability maybe he could get 4 attack to even out.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

When did this ever happen? Are you thinking of Aliens? (Or maybe AvP...)

My suggestions would be this:

Make his name Predator, but his class should be Hunter. The name is theatricality; clearly they are not 'predators' in the traditional sense.

I would have his attack stats be higher, with a base range of 1, and a Energy Blaster Special Attack (that maybe incorporates Worthy Prey into it). How about:
ENERGY BLASTER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range: 4. Attack: 1 + Special.
Opponent's small and medium figures cannot roll defense dice against Energy Blaster Special Attack. When attacking with Energy Blaster Special Attack, you may roll an additional attack die for each unrevealed Order Marker on the defending figure's Army Card. A Predator may use Energy Blaster Special Attack only once per round.

Also, I'm not sold on Honorable. Yeah, the 2nd movie and the AvP movies played this up, but these movies suck, imho. In the first and the latest movies (which are far and away the best), the Predator is anything but Honorable... firing from a hidden position and attacking species far weaker than itself.

Finally... only being able to trigger the Self Destruct when the figure has only has 1 life remaining is not going to happen very often. I'd rather have it work like Dying Swipe.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

"Keyes (Gary Busey) and his team have set a trap in a nearby slaughterhouse, using thermally insulated suits and cryogenic weapons in an attempt to capture it for study. However, the Predator sees through the trap by using its mask to scan through various electromagnetic wavelengths and kills the team. Harrigan intervenes, shooting the Predator several times and removing its mask."

"Predator 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. N.p., n.d. Web. 25 July 2011. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_2>.

I like the dying swipe idea but ion the movie it was a nuke so it would be very hard to make that into an ability. Also, predator had to activate it. It was not automatic. What if it had a range of 6-7 but, after predator activated it he could not move, and, the opponents had 2-3 turns to escape from the radius. Maybe

Self destruct: Put three bomb counters on predator, once per either players turn remove one counter from predator. Once all counters are removed, destroy predator and roll 4 attack dice, once for each figure within 6-7 line of sight spaces of predator. While predator has bomb counters on him he cannot move or attack. Blast counters cannot be removed from predator except by the effect of this ability. If predator is killed while he has counters on him, leave his body on the field until all counters are removed and the bomb explodes. Consider his body as an impassible obstacle like a ruin or tree.

Its complicated but i think it really icludes the important stuff.