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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

wriggz August 19th, 2017 12:26 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2159887)
Looks like the game has started? Btw are we supposed to keep our nation identity private? I told kevindola who I was already, (not realizing that might need to hidden information.) I think it would be more fun if I knew who was who, but if that isn't a shared sentiment I can respect that.

-scorp

I have no reason to keep my identity hidden, as you will all only know me through my posts on this site. I would ask that communication regarding the game does go through the official Press, since offline communication can be a boon to those players building stronger alliances.

scorpiusx August 19th, 2017 02:40 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Well, I will go ahead and say it.

GOBBLE GOBBLE, this Turkey is out to squabble.

-scorp

Dad_Scaper August 20th, 2017 02:00 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
No press or communication about the game outside of the judge. Not. A. Word. Not here, not on the phone, not by email or Facebook post or chatter by the water cooler. That is cheating, and even the lightest most innocent-seeming remark can betray something important.

If anyone has any objection to continuing as we are please let me know privately. One option is restarting with the same seven but with new opportunities to select powers, so things may be different.

It's a fun game and I don't want to be so harsh as it's starting but I need to be clear on this point.

Kinseth August 20th, 2017 09:55 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I would prefer we reset the countries.

scorpiusx August 20th, 2017 11:37 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2159960)
No press or communication about the game outside of the judge. Not. A. Word. Not here, not on the phone, not by email or Facebook post or chatter by the water cooler. That is cheating, and even the lightest most innocent-seeming remark can betray something important.

If anyone has any objection to continuing as we are please let me know privately. One option is restarting with the same seven but with new opportunities to select powers, so things may be different.

It's a fun game and I don't want to be so harsh as it's starting but I need to be clear on this point.

???

Afraid I don't understand why one form of private communication is cheating while another isn't? Only thing I can think of is if say I was telling everyone I was Austria when I was really Turkey, but that sort of fiction would make itself evident rather quickly.

Ultimately I joined the game to have fun with my fellow Scapers and friends. I know AYP, Ranior, and kevindola through CoN and this seemed to be a good opportunity to interact with both them and the other Scapers I haven't had the pleasure to talk with much. Keeping things rigid and strict keeps things more stodgy and official; more work than fun. And the reason I play games is to have fun; to scheme and banter and **** talk with old and new friends alike, just like I would on an actual tabletop.

But maybe I am alone in that sentiment, and since I am new to Diplomacy I would like know if there is a reason for keeping things so rigid that actually affects the gameplay.

-scorp

wriggz August 20th, 2017 03:04 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2159970)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2159960)
No press or communication about the game outside of the judge. Not. A. Word. Not here, not on the phone, not by email or Facebook post or chatter by the water cooler. That is cheating, and even the lightest most innocent-seeming remark can betray something important.

If anyone has any objection to continuing as we are please let me know privately. One option is restarting with the same seven but with new opportunities to select powers, so things may be different.

It's a fun game and I don't want to be so harsh as it's starting but I need to be clear on this point.

???

Afraid I don't understand why one form of private communication is cheating while another isn't? Only thing I can think of is if say I was telling everyone I was Austria when I was really Turkey, but that sort of fiction would make itself evident rather quickly.

I doubt anything of note has happened before the first movement phase and don't think abandoning the game makes sense.

Ultimately I joined the game to have fun with my fellow Scapers and friends. I know AYP, Ranior, and kevindola through CoN and this seemed to be a good opportunity to interact with both them and the other Scapers I haven't had the pleasure to talk with much. Keeping things rigid and strict keeps things more stodgy and official; more work than fun. And the reason I play games is to have fun; to scheme and banter and **** talk with old and new friends alike, just like I would on an actual tabletop.

But maybe I am alone in that sentiment, and since I am new to Diplomacy I would like know if there is a reason for keeping things so rigid that actually affects the gameplay.

-scorp

The press system is very quick and easy, so it is possible to get chummy and relaxed there. You can even send messages to multiple people. You should not feel stifled.

However, as I have mentioned using any other system can disadvantage people not privy to those systems.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people knowing who is who, it might impact your decision making prospect if you think you know one of your friends can or can't be trusted, but that is the same game you play with strangers.

scorpiusx August 20th, 2017 03:13 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I've also used the press system and don't have any problems with it. I am fine relegating any further private communication to the press system now, but I would definitely ask that we keep the current game standing if that's okay with everyone else. Just seems like a hassle to reset everything, especially after people have already begun to strategize their nations, (plus I am a new player and have been doing lots of studying on how to efficiently play my particular nation and would hate to have to switch things up now.)

-scorp

Dad_Scaper August 21st, 2017 10:32 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I was at GenCon last week and not as involved as I would normally be. My apologies.

First of all, let's be clear that I rule by fiat. If I ask you guys how you feel about something, it's because I want to know. But as GM, my decisions are final.

Second of all, I am not new to GM'ing online Diplomacy games. I would venture to guess that I have GM'ed more online games then any of you have played, and possibly more than all of you have played online put together.

Third of all, I did not lightly use that stern warning. Those of you who played in the last game will recall that I never adopted that tone one time in the past, and it is rare that I do so.

Fourth of all, let me explain why: As I understood the post in question several things had happened. (1) "Gunboat" - anonymous play - had broken. (2) Two players were communicating about the game off the judge.

I don't really care if gunboat gets broken. That happens sometimes. It's not good, because - like it or not - dealing with "Germany" is different from dealing with "Wriggz," and you won't read press the same way, so it is a bad thing. But it happens sometimes. (Edit: Just an example off the top of my head. I have no idea who is playing which power. I suppose I could use my GM powers to look it up but in order to protect the game itself I don't ever do so, barring an emergency not present at this time.)

Where it becomes more dangerous is in situations in which players are also communicating with each other off-judge. If Germany and France are friends at a high school, or communicate regularly via text or something, and the game comes up in casual conversation, one of two things will happen. Either (1) France has said something significant about the game, or (2) Germany will mistakenly *think* France has said something significant about the game. This is unavoidable

As wriggz said, that situation is unfair to all the rest of the players. Not because France and Germany will deliberately cheat, but because any time the subject of the game comes up, they are sharing opportunities to suss out clues from each other, and to find those clues, whether those clues are imaginary or not.

So. I have run games in this situation before. I did then what I've done now, which is make sure that all the players understood what had happened, and all consented before going forward. (Edit: Please write me privately if you object. There is no need to post your thoughts here, whether you object or not.)

I agree with Scorpius that this game *could* go forward, and if people are excited about their powers then it probably should. Gunboat being broken for one player is not a big deal; it happens. We can "forget" it happened and move on, pretending it did not. However, if I learn or deduce that there has been off-judge communication about the game in this context, players will be ejected.

Those are the conditions of going forward. I regret that we are starting the game with a stern warning, but in my experience it is necessary that we do so. If anyone has any objections to this path, please write me privately. Or leave, or ask me to leave, if you think I've been too harsh.

Kinseth August 21st, 2017 10:38 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I am good with carrying on. Since we have some newbies here, it is understandable.

With the standard being clear, going forward, let the games begin!

kevindola August 21st, 2017 10:55 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I would like the game to continue as-is

wriggz August 21st, 2017 12:15 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2160024)
It's not good, because - like it or not - dealing with "Germany" is different from dealing with "Wriggz," and you won't read press the same way, so it is a bad thing.


I'm not sure if this is an insult or a complement.

Dad_Scaper August 21st, 2017 01:50 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2160033)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2160024)
It's not good, because - like it or not - dealing with "Germany" is different from dealing with "Wriggz," and you won't read press the same way, so it is a bad thing.

I'm not sure if this is an insult or a complement.

See that? I can play Diplomacy, too. ;)


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