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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred July 11th, 2015 03:15 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Format on our treasures have been updated too..

JC McMinis July 12th, 2015 11:13 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Ok here is the bow, boots and cestus done in the new format. I will do up the Fleece later today.




McHotcakes July 12th, 2015 02:16 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Boots of Hermes
I think Phantom Walk uses the wording "is never attacked when leaving an engagement." Instead of "for leaving an engagement."

For Bow of Apollo and Nemean Cestus I don't think we need the first sentence under the Permanent Treasure Glyph section. Both say that the figure can use the glyphs before attacking. I think this is a little confusing and unnecessary. What does use the glyph mean? Is it to use the special attack? In that case, the way its written it means Kratos can use the special attack before attacking with a normal attack. I'm assuming that's not what we want.

TREX July 12th, 2015 02:27 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I agree with @McHotcakes , it sounds funny due to a special attack being used instead of a normal attack. Otherwise it looks good.

Confred July 12th, 2015 08:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I see the confusion now



This figure may use this bow instead of attacking with a normal attack. This figure attacks with Arrows of Apollo Special Attack.



This figure may use this bow to attack with Arrows of Apollo Special Attack.
While we're here, should it be (RANGED SPECIAL ATTACK) or (ARROWS OF APOLLO)?

And good catch on Boots, an easy fix without contention

Dysole July 12th, 2015 09:03 PM

I mean you could always say Arrows of Apollo Special Attack but if we don't want to go that route Ranged Special Attack is clearer what it does. For the text underneath the Permanent Treasure Glyph I like this language.

Instead of attacking normally, the figure may use this glyph to attack with Arrows of Apollo Special Attack.

~Dysole, briefly

Confred July 12th, 2015 11:04 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Ooh I understand your wording choice, but it doesn't mirror as closely the official model:
"[This figure] [may use this] [item] [when][.] [Effect]"

I think (2) is as clean of a shortened version as we can get.

JC McMinis July 14th, 2015 12:04 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Ok here are the 3 treasures with the adjusted text and the typo fixed in the boots. As a note I know the godly artifact part is not in the top area yet, I will put that on once we are done with Kratos completely, right before I post them in the display thread.




TREX July 14th, 2015 03:49 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Got another play test in on this guy with my brothers that came out to my place again. Kratos still managed to get squashed by a guy half his points and not come back.
Kratos ran in, got ambushed by Orthkurik, wounded 5x. Failed to make even one good attack, Orthkurik took height and finished him off. He then did not come back the rest of the game. Something may need to be done with his defense or his point cost. At the moment he is not even remotely worth 300 points if he is played by himself. In a larger game where he has more chances to come back, he still has some issues. He also has to earn all his glyphs. I like this, but it should reflect in his point cost. Compared to characters that start the game with them, it is harder to get them. I have noticed this on most of all my playtest. Out of 5 games, he only shined in one of them.

Confred July 15th, 2015 03:40 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I find that odd @TREX because I've found the opposite true. He's been an owny beast that's almost unfair.

PLAY TEST 6 is still underway as I've been busy.
Kratos + The Doctor@100 + Krav Maga Agents {500} vs Marro Hive + Marro Stingers x2 + Marro Drones x4 {500}

I wanted to test The Doctor for the other thread and to scrutinize Climb From Tartarus - to which has been quite effective in the solo testing.

The Hive had a dominant presence as it sent wave after wave of Drones to tie up The Doctor and Kratos. Kratos had some bad rolls but did his damage. It didn't help him that one of the Glyphs occupied by the Marro was Army Defense +2.
Eventually Kratos died but he Climbed out right next to The Hive, finally getting past the blockade. Perhaps Kratos cannot attack the same turn he successfully climbs? The other game he did this it was devastating also. I'll test the idea more.
With The Hive down and 3 potential attacks remaining with Vengeance, I look at the Godly Artifacts to choose and test. The Boots of Hermes are a good choice, but I've already decided they were good. I could choose the Bow and see about kiting the Range 1 Drones, but again the Bow is good enough. There's only like 1 Stinger remaining, so Golden Fleece is out also. Even though Kratos is at Life 5, I choose Claws of Hades (R) to test the Reverent Tomb idea. I kill the two surrounding figures and bank them. I summon one to attack the last Stinger at range. This was a neat function, because Kratos was engaged. Summoning figures can bypass engagement and kill pesky ranged figures and get into crannies and around corners that say Bow of Apollo cannot. That was neat.
As is, however, the power is wonky and needs some adjustments, and the simpler (II.2) version is probably still the better choice to represent the Claws.

off to work.

I think Kratos' Defense is good at 4. He's such a killhouse that I even thought of making him weaker. Defense 3 was no good. 4 is good, I wouldn't want any of that to change.
The only stat I think may change is Move 6 to 5, but I like his mobility.

Claws (11.2) will add survivability with the Life Drain.

I found getting Godly Artifacts not that difficult to do. Certainly it was the focus and the drive of the player using Kratos, sure, but multiple attacks of 4 is rough.

Vengeance: After attacking, may attack again. My continue attack if roll 2 skulls up to a maximum of 5 attacks.
Guarantees at least 2 attacks.

Really off to work...

TREX July 15th, 2015 08:28 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
@Confred , It is probably good news that the majority of my games have been failures, and the majority of your runs have been beasty. That means that he should be pretty fair one way or the other. Every figure is a gamble one way or the other. It sounds like its all in the roll. As far as his stats. The 4 defense and the 6 move are good to go in my opinion. I am ok with vengeance being up to 5 attacks, as when he has been played its only went to 4 attacks twice. I think the Claws II.2 is what I like the most with the options we have. The only thing about your statement above that I don't completely understand is why Kratos would get to attack on the same roll he came back from tartarus on. When he dies I think you should lose those turns regardless of if he comes back or not. If he is destroyed he should not have any order markers on his card. Nice play tests. This guy has been really fun to make.

Confred July 16th, 2015 03:23 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
@TREX unless I'm unfamiliar with the rules, om's do stay on Army Cards when the figures are destroyed. Typically they're just removed to dud turns.
In several games, Kratos had an order marker on him, before using it, he Climbed, then he used his orders to attack.

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