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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

mac122 April 4th, 2011 04:07 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1378732)
Can a space be within Line of Sight?

From the Air Elemental's card:

Swirling Vortex
When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of an Air Elemental you control...

It seems to be referring to a space when it references "2 clear sight spaces." If the Air Elemental can see the space, then figures are affected. So, if Indy can see the space and it's in range, he can swing to it.

Balantai April 7th, 2011 01:49 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1378761)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1378732)
Can a space be within Line of Sight?

From the Air Elemental's card:

Swirling Vortex
When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of an Air Elemental you control...

It seems to be referring to a space when it references "2 clear sight spaces." If the Air Elemental can see the space, then figures are affected. So, if Indy can see the space and it's in range, he can swing to it.

Odd. If I have a figure that is near a wall that is 15 levels high and I can see the side of the space, does that mean I have clear line of sight of that space?

Lamaclown April 7th, 2011 02:07 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1381066)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1378761)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1378732)
Can a space be within Line of Sight?

From the Air Elemental's card:

Swirling Vortex
When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of an Air Elemental you control...

It seems to be referring to a space when it references "2 clear sight spaces." If the Air Elemental can see the space, then figures are affected. So, if Indy can see the space and it's in range, he can swing to it.

Odd. If I have a figure that is near a wall that is 15 levels high and I can see the side of the space, does that mean I have clear line of sight of that space?

If you can see at least part of that spaces hit zone than yes, you... oh, wait, nevermind.

mac122 April 7th, 2011 02:39 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1381078)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1381066)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1378761)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1378732)
Can a space be within Line of Sight?

From the Air Elemental's card:

Swirling Vortex
When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of an Air Elemental you control...

It seems to be referring to a space when it references "2 clear sight spaces." If the Air Elemental can see the space, then figures are affected. So, if Indy can see the space and it's in range, he can swing to it.

Odd. If I have a figure that is near a wall that is 15 levels high and I can see the side of the space, does that mean I have clear line of sight of that space?

If you can see at least part of that spaces hit zone than yes, you... oh, wait, nevermind.

It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma, deep-fried in a vat of confusion...:confused:

The Air Elemental's card refers to clear sight spaces to a space, but I could not find a definition or clarification for that - only definitions of clear sight to a figure. While we aren't concerned with 15 levels in this situation, the 6 levels we are concerned with would still put the top of the space above Indy's eye level. I think I'll post a question in the Question Dump to see what others have to say.

Balantai April 7th, 2011 02:43 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
It would make sense that you would need to be able to see the top of the space. I'm curious to hear this answer myself.

killercactus April 7th, 2011 02:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1381103)
It would make sense that you would need to be able to see the top of the space. I'm curious to hear this answer myself.

I just responded over in the Questio Dump, but I think the AE's card is still referring to clear sight to a figure. It's worded a bit contradictory to that, but it seems it has to be worded that way in order to emphasize that the figure has to stop moving as soon as the AE has clear sight to it.

mac122 April 7th, 2011 04:29 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
If your interpretation is correct, and I have nothing to say it isn't, then does anyone have another suggestion for Whip Swing?
-If "clear sight" to a space requires a figure on that space, then obviously the space is not empty and Indy could not swing to it.
-Removing the "clear sight" restriction would allow Indy to swing through terrain, obstacles, etc., which is not the intent of the ability.
-Removing the clear sight restriction then adding wording to prevent swinging through obstacles would make the ability too wordy to fit.
-The older version based on Swing Line works, but is too wordy to fit on the card with the other 2 abilities.
-We could remove the part that allows Indy to take someone along for the ride, but then he loses points off his "Hero" card.

Balantai April 11th, 2011 05:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think we need the 'wordy' version to work. Thus, we need to make changes to the card. So what do we remove?

mac122 April 11th, 2011 05:40 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I see 2 options: remove the "Carry" portion of Whip Swing or remove Whip 12.


Indy with "Carry" removed from Whip Swing
Spoiler Alert!



Indy with "Carry" included in Whip Swing, but without Whip.
Spoiler Alert!


Removing "Carry" takes away from the Heroic theme of Indy, while removing Whip 12 reduces his combat effectiveness. If we took away Whip 12, we would need to bump Indy's attack up and perhaps his defense.

Balantai April 11th, 2011 06:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm cofused. Why can't Indy swing over a 20 high wall as long as his final spot is no more than 6 levels above his original placement. I think the 'ignore elevations' part needs the clarification.

Taeblewalker April 11th, 2011 06:24 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
If we make it an unengaged figure then we can remove the last line. I see no need for stealth swing.

mac122 April 11th, 2011 06:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
We do need to adjust the height of what Indy can swing over due to the length of his whip. 6 is probably too short, but 20 is probably too high. Indy should be able to swing over walls equal to or less than his height plus the length of the whip. He's probably about 6' - 5 levels (Medium 5). The whip is about 10' - about 8 levels. So, if we fudge the length of the whip a bit, we could set it at 15 levels.

Since Whip Swing is based on Swing Line, here is the Swing Line wording(from MSE) and then an adjustment for Whip Swing.
Quote:

SWING LINE 3
Instead of a normal move, Indiana Jones may use his Swing Line. Swing Line has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Swing Line movement, ignore elevations. Indiana Jones may swing over water without stopping, swing over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Indiana Jones may not Swing Line more than 40 levels up or down in a single Swing Line. If Indiana Jones is engaged when he starts to Swing Line, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Adjusted to Whip Swing
Quote:

WHIP SWING 3
Instead of a normal move, Indiana Jones may use his Whip Swing. Whip Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Whip Swing movement, ignore elevations. Indiana Jones may swing over water without stopping, swing over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Indiana Jones may not Whip Swing more than 15 levels up or down in a single Whip Swing. If Indiana Jones is engaged when he starts to Whip Swing, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Is that better?

Edit: Indy used the whip to get himself out of jams. I'd like to see the no leaving engagement attacks left in.


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