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-   -   Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18) (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55236)

Cleon October 15th, 2018 07:00 PM

Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)
 
(Updating...)

Cleon's Unit Tier List

10:

1. Deathreavers
2. Raelin the Kyrie Warrior RotV
3. Major Q9
4.
5.
6. Fen Hydra

9:

7. Marcu Esenwein
8. Sir Gilbert
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.

8:

26.
27.
28.
29.
30.
31.
32.
33.
34.
35.
36.
37.
38.
39.
40.
41.
42.
43.
44.
45. Red Wyrmling
46. Agent Skahen
47. Marrden Nagrubs

7:

48. Tor-Kul-Na
49.
50.
51.
52.
53.
54.
55.
56.
57.
58.
59.
60.
61.
62.
63.
64.
65.
66.
67.
68.
69.
70.
71.
72.
73.
74.
75.
76.
77.
78.
79.

6:

80.
81.
82.
83.
84.
85.
86.
87.
88.
89.
90.
91.
92.
93.
94.
95.
96.
97.
98.
99.
100.
101.
102.
103.
104.
105.
106.
107.
108.
109.
110.
111.
112.
113.

5:

114.
115.
116.
117.
118.
119.
120.
121.
122.
123.
124.
125.
126.
127.
128.
129.
130.
131.
132.
133.
134.
135.
136.
137.
138.
139.
140.
141.
142.
143.
144.
145.
146.
147.

4:

148.
149.
150.
151.
152.
153.
154.
155.
156.
157.
158.
159.
160.
161.
162.
163.
164.
165.
166.
167.
168.
169.
170.
171.
172.

3:

173.
174.
175.
176.
177.
178.
179.
180.
181.
182.
183.
184.
185.
186.
187.
188.
189.
190.

2:

191.
192.
193.
194.
195.
196.
197.
198.
199.
200. Major X17
201.
202.

1:

203. Grok Riders
204. Deathwalker 7000
205. Shiori
206. Obsidian Guards
207. Pelloth
208. Hatamoto Taro

10:
High - Deathreavers, Raelin the Kyrie Warrior RotV
Mid - Isamu, Major Q9, Marro Warriors
Low - Fen Hydra

9:
High - Marcu Esenwein, Me-Burq-Sa, Nilfheim, Sir Gilbert, 4th Massachusetts Line
Mid - Grimnak, Heavy Gruts, Kaemon Awa, Knights of Weston, Krav Maga Agents, Major Q10, Marro Stingers, 10th Regiment of Foot
Low - Blastatrons, Braxas, Gladiatrons, Greenscales, Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider, Phantom Knights

8:
High - Airborne Elite, Alastair MacDirk, The Axegrinders of Burning Forge, Black Wyrmling, Marcus Decimus Gallus, Mogrimm Forgehammer
Mid - Cyprien Esenwein, Deathchasers of Thesk, Eldgrim the Viking Champion, Eltahale, Fire Elemental, Laglor, Roman Legionnaires, Zelrig, Zetacron
Low - Agent Skahen, Darrak Ambershard, Krug, Marrden Nagrubs, Mezzodemon Warmongers, Red Wyrmling, Sgt. Drake Alexander SotM

7:
High - Arrow Gruts, Blade Gruts, Brave Arrow, Charos, Goblin Cutters, Heirloom, Marro Dividers, Mohican River Tribe, Ne-Gok-Sa, Swog Rider, Tor-Kul-Na
Mid - Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior, Finn the Viking Champion, Frost Giant of Morh, Minions of Utgar, Moltenclaw, Sacred Band, Samuel Brown, Sonya Esenwein, Warforged Soldiers
Low - Ashigaru Harquebus, Crixus, Migol Ironwill, Mimring, Ogre Pulverizer, Sentinels of Jandar, Sir Hawthorne, Sgt. Drake Alexander RotV, Syvarris, Thorgrim the Viking Champion, Venoc Warlord, White Wyrmling

6:
High - Arkmer, Capuan Gladiators, Marrden Hounds, Marro Drones, Nakita Agents, Ornak, Spartacus, Taelord the Kyrie Warrior, Venoc Vipers, Wyvern
Mid - Brunak, Fyorlag Spiders, Guilty McCreech, MacDirk Warriors, Microcorp Agents, Ogre Warhulk, Omnicron Snipers, Othkurik the Black Dragon, Theracus, Tornak, Valguard, Warriors of Ashra
Low - Aubrien Archers, Concan the Kyrie Warrior, Horned Skull Brutes, Kelda the Kyrie Warrior, Omnicron Repulsors, Rhogar Dragonspine, Shurrak, Su-Bak-Na, Tagawa Samurai, Tandros Kreel, Tarn Viking Warriors, Zombies of Morindan

5:
High - Ana Karithon, Blue Wyrmling, Granite Guardians, Jorhdawn, Kato Katsuro, Mind Flayer Mastermind, Otonashi, Protectors of Ullar, Raelin the Kyrie Warrior SotM, Sonlen
Mid - Anubian Wolves, Estivara, Ice Troll Berserker, Iron Golem, Izumi Samurai, James Murphy, Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan, Kurrok the Elementalist, Kyntela Gwyn, Quasatch Hunters, Sir Denrick, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Ulginesh, Water Elemental
Low - Air Elemental, Chardris, Deathwalker 8000, Deepwyrm Drow, Drow Chainfighter, Jotun, Kozuke Samurai, Siege, Torin, Tul-Bak-Ra

4:
High - Ashigaru Yari, Deathstalkers, Master of the Hunt, Retiarius, Sir Dupuis, Wo-Sa-Ga, Zettian Guards
Mid - Armoc Vipers, Death Knights of Valkrill, Deathwalker 9000, Dumutef Guard, Earth Elemental, Morsbane, Ninjas of the Northern Wind, Parmenio, Warden 816
Low - Agent Carr, Dzu-Teh, Elite Onyx Vipers, Evar Scarcarver, Iskra Esenwein, Mika Connour, Sharwin Wildborn, Sujoah, Wolves of Badru

3:
High - Dund, Erevan Sunshadow, Gorillinators, Kumiko, Rechets of Bogdan, Werewolf Lord
Mid - Emirroon, Greater Ice Elemental, Kee-Mo-Shi, Marro Hive, Master Win Chiu Woo, Runa, Shaolin Monks, Sudema
Low - Acolarh, Khosumet the Darklord, Sahuagin Raider, Shades of Bleakwoode

2:
High - Brandis Skyhunter, The Einar Imperium, Empress Kiova, Marro Drudge, Templar Cavalry
Mid - Deadeye Dan, Gurei-Oni, Roman Archers, Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Low - Feral Troll, Major X17, Moriko

1:
High - Deathwalker 7000, Grok Riders
Mid - Obsidian Guards, Pelloth, Shiori
Low - Hatamoto Taro

Cleon October 15th, 2018 07:02 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Previous Lists:

Version 2: (11/26/18 )

Spoiler Alert!


Version 1: (10/15/18 )

Spoiler Alert!

vegietarian18 October 16th, 2018 10:59 AM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Nice list!

I'm not sure I agree with Hydra as 9.5, he's certainly good but I don't think distinctively better than 4th Mass or Nilfheim or any of the other 9s.

Also at this point I feel fairly confident in saying that Heavy Gruts are better in the meta than Knights of Weston; better pairing with Raelin and Chomp and Disengage have more utility than +1 defense and Jandar's Dispatch.

Warriors of Ashra and Marrden Hounds feel really low at Tier 5.

Beyond that it's kind of nitpicking. And even this is kind of nitpicking lol. I like the Tier ranking from 10-1 though, the cutoffs feel more natural than the letter grades.

Dad_Scaper October 16th, 2018 11:43 AM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
I agree with vegie that this format is excellent. SP's original listing, using the grades, was deliberately whimsical, and I think this tier structure is better suited to serious discussion.

I'd like to see the whole 9.5 tier removed, because it follows right on the heels of your presentation about this new way you're going to do things, and I also think (as vegie also suggests) you could safely put those units in Tier 9. As I understand your formula for rating units.

The order looks good to me. At the top, which is the only place I think precise placement is interesting, I'd flip the Hydra and Marcu, and I'd also drop Gilbert down some distance. He's great but I don't see why he should outstrip the Knights by a couple places, and I reject the idea that either belongs ahead of the Krav.

I'm also a fan of Eltahale, who you say you're not comfortable assessing, but I don't think of myself as a great player who should be throwing his weight around in these conversations. So that's my :2cents:.

Also, I can't believe you numbered that whole list manually. Heaven help you when you want to change something, or you realize you left out some unit from Tier 8. Or whatever.

Thanks for sharing, this is very interesting.

Cleon October 16th, 2018 03:33 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vegietarian18 (Post 2229712)
Nice list!

I'm not sure I agree with Hydra as 9.5, he's certainly good but I don't think distinctively better than 4th Mass or Nilfheim or any of the other 9s.

Also at this point I feel fairly confident in saying that Heavy Gruts are better in the meta than Knights of Weston; better pairing with Raelin and Chomp and Disengage have more utility than +1 defense and Jandar's Dispatch.

Warriors of Ashra and Marrden Hounds feel really low at Tier 5.

Beyond that it's kind of nitpicking. And even this is kind of nitpicking lol. I like the Tier ranking from 10-1 though, the cutoffs feel more natural than the letter grades.

I have pretty big worriment when it comes to Marrden Hounds. I agree they can be pretty strong and do nice damage, when they fit into the right time and place. But they just have several things that are large hindrances I can't ignore:

-They are very map dependent. Double-spaced squads run into issues in getting into ideal positions often, and Hounds reeeally want to get powerful engagement spots with as many units as you can.
-Their ability doesn't work against soulborgs. In a metagame where so many of the top tier and winning armies contain soulborgs (rats especially, trons, Q's. And more lower stuff you'll see occasionally that is still decent like Omnicrons), not having your ability against them is a pretty big problem. That's why I really can't rate Cyprien higher than he is, despite him being so strong in many matchups.
-They're decently luck dependent. Their movement ability doesn't really help them, it's really just a setback ability. 8 movement is the norm for them, which is the usual for a two spaced squad (either 7 or 8), and really Wild Pack Movement just means sometimes they can't move much, which is bad. If it included something like "if you roll 15+, add 9 to their movement" or "if you roll a 19 or 20, add 11 to their movement" then it would be an interesting ability that could help you out. But as it is, it's really just "you have 8 move but a third of the time you can't move much."

That being said they're not bad, I put them as a high Tier-5. I'm not that opposed to bumping them up to Tier 6. But I don't think they should be much higher than that, they have too many issues.

Yeah Warriors of Ashra I was going back and forth between Tier 5 and 6. They're probably 6. WoA+PKs or WoA+Q9 or WoA+Range-Counter are pretty strong armies. They also are very splashable. I remember Jexik splashed them for Day 2 with his Greenscale+Nilf+Raelin army one year. That was cool.

It's interesting how you feel about the Heavies. I always give Knights the edge in my mind with their base 4 defense, that they have that no matter what or where they are on the map. I feel Heavies are a bit more map dependent, or map-area dependent I guess. But Heavies have their advantages as well. Both are really great of course. I'll see if others chime in

OrcElfArmyOne October 16th, 2018 04:02 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleon (Post 2229826)
Quote:

Originally Posted by vegietarian18 (Post 2229712)
Nice list!

I'm not sure I agree with Hydra as 9.5, he's certainly good but I don't think distinctively better than 4th Mass or Nilfheim or any of the other 9s.

Also at this point I feel fairly confident in saying that Heavy Gruts are better in the meta than Knights of Weston; better pairing with Raelin and Chomp and Disengage have more utility than +1 defense and Jandar's Dispatch.

Warriors of Ashra and Marrden Hounds feel really low at Tier 5.

Beyond that it's kind of nitpicking. And even this is kind of nitpicking lol. I like the Tier ranking from 10-1 though, the cutoffs feel more natural than the letter grades.

I have pretty big worriment when it comes to Marrden Hounds. I agree they can be pretty strong and do nice damage, when they fit into the right time and place. But they just have several things that are large hindrances I can't ignore:

-They are very map dependent. Double-spaced squads run into issues in getting into ideal positions often, and Hounds reeeally want to get powerful engagement spots with as many units as you can.
-Their ability doesn't work against soulborgs. In a metagame where so many of the top tier and winning armies contain soulborgs (rats especially, trons, Q's. And more lower stuff you'll see occasionally that is still decent like Omnicrons), not having your ability against them is a pretty big problem. That's why I really can't rate Cyprien higher than he is, despite him being so strong in many matchups.
-They're decently luck dependent. Their movement ability doesn't really help them, it's really just a setback ability. 8 movement is the norm for them, which is the usual for a two spaced squad (either 7 or 8), and really Wild Pack Movement just means sometimes they can't move much, which is bad. If it included something like "if you roll 15+, add 9 to their movement" or "if you roll a 19 or 20, add 11 to their movement" then it would be an interesting ability that could help you out. But as it is, it's really just "you have 8 move but a third of the time you can't move much."

That being said they're not bad, I put them as a high Tier-5. I'm not that opposed to bumping them up to Tier 6. But I don't think they should be much higher than that, they have too many issues.

Yeah Warriors of Ashra I was going back and forth between Tier 5 and 6. They're probably 6. WoA+PKs or WoA+Q9 or WoA+Range-Counter are pretty strong armies. They also are very splashable. I remember Jexik splashed them for Day 2 with his Greenscale+Nilf+Raelin army one year. That was cool.

It's interesting how you feel about the Heavies. I always give Knights the edge in my mind with their base 4 defense, that they have that no matter what or where they are on the map. I feel Heavies are a bit more map dependent, or map-area dependent I guess. But Heavies have their advantages as well. Both are really great of course. I'll see if others chime in

Do I need to say how I feel about Heavies? ;)

Also, nice list! Obviously I disagree with about 1/4 of your rankings but to each their own.

I don't see Soulborgs as a problem anymore. Trons have all but disappeared. Rats and Q9 you may hit once in a tourney, none of the top players are really running them so you don't have to worry about them at the top tables. Q10 is fine, but he's overrated (as is Vydar as a whole with the exception of Q9 and Krav.) I wouldn't worry about potentially hitting Omnicrons, it's probably still a 50/50 matchup for Hounds (I hear 1 or 2v5s are bad odds.)

Cleon October 16th, 2018 04:03 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
As far as my thoughts on the Hydra goes, the more I play/see games with it, the more I conclude it's just an incredibly strong unit no matter how you look at it. Which is basically the criteria for being a 10.

It's not that expensive, very strong against melee, and still strong against a lot of range, basically no bad matchups. I don't think it's very map dependent, Reach takes care of so many spots on maps. And on the flipside, running it on Road/Castle maps can be crazy good. You can also choose to have just one, or multiple. Both are powerful and spark interesting potential builds. Nasty with rats or PK's, and perfectly fine without them and in other builds.

With other top-Tier-9 units like 4th or Krav or Knights, they do have bad matchups you run into. 4th doesn't like Q9 or Q10, also Zelrig can be a bit worrisome, Krav don't like PK's which are common in competitive play now, Knights still can run into 10th and Hydras, also Charos with or without Greenscales can be annoying for them too. But the Hydra is kinda awesome no matter what.

Bottom line is, they're only 120pt. and have a large tendency to kill way more than their points, and at the same time I think are minimally chance-dependent (regarding matchups or maps). That to me is a top echelon unit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2229733)
I agree with vegie that this format is excellent. SP's original listing, using the grades, was deliberately whimsical, and I think this tier structure is better suited to serious discussion.

I'd like to see the whole 9.5 tier removed, because it follows right on the heels of your presentation about this new way you're going to do things, and I also think (as vegie also suggests) you could safely put those units in Tier 9. As I understand your formula for rating units.

The order looks good to me. At the top, which is the only place I think precise placement is interesting, I'd flip the Hydra and Marcu, and I'd also drop Gilbert down some distance. He's great but I don't see why he should outstrip the Knights by a couple places, and I reject the idea that either belongs ahead of the Krav.

I'm also a fan of Eltahale, who you say you're not comfortable assessing, but I don't think of myself as a great player who should be throwing his weight around in these conversations. So that's my :2cents:.

Also, I can't believe you numbered that whole list manually. Heaven help you when you want to change something, or you realize you left out some unit from Tier 8. Or whatever.

Thanks for sharing, this is very interesting.

Yeah, I'm going to abolish the 9.5 category and split the two like I said if I had to. I guess I was just very reluctant to add or demote a unit from the 'top echelon' of units.

Marcu's amazing because he basically nullify's the Wound glyph completely for your army, and is also a solid cleanup figure that can definitely kill more than 20pt. Can also be used as an effective unit with Ornak, too. But, he is slightly dependent on whether you're on a lava map or not. There's also the possibility the Wound glyph happens to not be in the glyph pool or tournament, too. Overall, he's amazing. But I rate him below the Hydra, and I don't think he's quite at the very top.

Gilbert I rate higher than the Knights just because I think he's that solid of a unit. He makes the Knights what they are, also works with a plethora of good Jandar figures, and is just such a solid bundle of stats and abilities for a bondable 105pt. The Knights are amazing, but I don't know, Gilbert himself just seems so good I feel that's where his power is, even though yes Gilbert+Knights is the best build for him. I dunno, kinda hard to explain, it's almost a 'it just feels right' explanation.

I remember Jexik once bumped him up to A+ in the original rankings, and I wasn't really opposed to it. Ultimately he kept him back at A but I agreed with him that Gilbert is quite strong of a hero.

Krav are amazing but PK's counter them hard, and PK's are not a unit you don't see. Even x1 squad just for the Krav I think is a good army option and will be a bit troublesome. If the PK's didn't exist I could see them a bit higher, but I like where I have them at right now.

Eltahale is a figure I'd like some insight on, yes. She's definitely good.

Yeah it took many many hours haha. But it's something I've been wanting to do for a long time and finally just buckled down and did it.

Thanks for the comments and reading it!

Dysole October 16th, 2018 04:05 PM

Later
 
Initial glance has units I think are too high or too low, but I very much like the system. I'll be back for more later with my thoughts.

~Dysole, with opinions

Cleon October 16th, 2018 04:13 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne (Post 2229844)
Do I need to say how I feel about Heavies? ;)

Also, nice list! Obviously I disagree with about 1/4 of your rankings but to each their own.

Ayeeee 3/4 agreement I'd say is pretty good. :)

Always happy to debate and discuss with ya (or anyone) too, man. :up:

OrcElfArmyOne October 16th, 2018 04:20 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleon (Post 2229851)
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne (Post 2229844)
Do I need to say how I feel about Heavies? ;)

Also, nice list! Obviously I disagree with about 1/4 of your rankings but to each their own.

Ayeeee 3/4 agreement I'd say is pretty good. :)

Always happy to debate and discuss with ya (or anyone) too, man. :up:

Once I have the time? Absolutely. Unfortunately just have time for some quick jabs ;).

You're insane for ranking all the units, but major props on the effort! Hell of an undertaking.

For starters, I'd reevaluate where you have Kozuke, Tandros, WoA, and Hounds (too low.) Glad/Blast is too high (above Heavies??), and Eltahale, Kaemon, and MBS should all move up in their respective tiers. Mezzos should be mid-top of tier 8, right below Romans probably. Zetacron seems high.

And the Kyrie squads, Braxas, and Laglor of course, not that we haven't had this conversation before or anything. ;)

Cleon October 16th, 2018 05:16 PM

I'd love to hear any or all thoughts from top/great players and spark up some discussion: :)

@spider_poison @MattserTruckRally @dok @Matthias Maccabeus @lonewolf @ManTrainChooChoo @scaper dude @R˙chean @Hendal @nicktheant @I.S.B.3 @infectedsloth @MajorQ23 @weesel99 @Jexik @NecroBlade @Deroche @fomox @Clarissimus @ollie @Kinseth @Bengi @The Orange Mailman @Mr Migraine @gamjuven @Dignan @CornPuff @southwest ninja @killercactus @RollItOnTop @capsocrates @Sir Heroscape @Tiny Timmy @KaBoomboomBoom

(Orc, Dysole and vegie already commented of course) (DadScaper too, have I ever played you? I believe I have but can't remember what the match was)

(There's also great old players like Kahrma, Jormi Boced, NWOjedi, Revdyer, etc. but I haven't seen them play in a long time and not sure when the last time they competed at GenCon was. Not sure if they still play or think about the game competitively but you all are welcome time chime in)

Sorry if I missed other notable players I'm sure I have, was just listing those I know off the top of my head. There are definitely some I forgot. Also, of course, if I haven't ever played you before and you don't go to GenCon or weren't a part of the New England seen I used to attend (i.e. - if you're from another region and don't attend GenCon but are a strong player) and are good players that still play/discuss, I apologize for not listing ya. Obviously feel free to comment and debate no matter who you are (well, as long as you know the game at least somewhat haha).

Also know that Vegie's Dad and Orc's Dad are solid too, if they want to chime in (do they have usernames?)

Also, I've never played in the online Heroscape scene, but I've heard there are some very strong players whom I've never met or seen play in person, but your opinions are valued to me and I'd like to mention some

@kevindola @TheSparkleInYourWater @Foudzing (I know there are probably others too, those are just the three I know are great players who crush on online)

^Hopefully I'll play you guys one day :)

Cleon October 16th, 2018 06:11 PM

Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne (Post 2229855)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleon (Post 2229851)
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne (Post 2229844)
Do I need to say how I feel about Heavies? ;)

Also, nice list! Obviously I disagree with about 1/4 of your rankings but to each their own.

Ayeeee 3/4 agreement I'd say is pretty good. :)

Always happy to debate and discuss with ya (or anyone) too, man. :up:

Once I have the time? Absolutely. Unfortunately just have time for some quick jabs ;).

You're insane for ranking all the units, but major props on the effort! Hell of an undertaking.

For starters, I'd reevaluate where you have Kozuke, Tandros, WoA, and Hounds (too low.) Glad/Blast is too high (above Heavies??), and Eltahale, Kaemon, and MBS should all move up in their respective tiers. Mezzos should be mid-top of tier 8, right below Romans probably. Zetacron seems high.

And the Kyrie squads, Braxas, and Laglor of course, not that we haven't had this conversation before or anything. ;)

Yeah I think you know my thoughts/stance on Minions/Sentinels, Braxas, and Laglor haha. ;). I will consider dropping Laglor to 8 though, just because he's probably the only 9 that lacks the results, or that you don't see often at all. I still think he's really good though.

As far as the other ones you mentioned, I'll make some quick comments:

Trons: Yeah I understand Trons don't really like the formats nowadays.....but I still think they are great figures. They probably drop down to low-9/high-8 when you limit them to 16-18 figures. But when it's 20+, they're very strong. I basically have them that high because although I have not personally had as much success with them as that ranked position, I know many top players have. Spider, lonewolf, Mattser, dok. But yes, nowadays the usual formats aren't as accomodating for them. Maybe I should move them to a mid-Tier-9? Or low-Tier-9? Does that sound more accurate?

WoA: I'm going to let the list sit for like a week and then update it with some tweaks. They will move up to mid-Tier-6 I think. I was going to put them as 6 anyways but was reluctant and put them as a safe high-5.

Kozuke: Really? I always think of them as the worst of the 3 samurai squads...but all 3 are pretty equal in power I had thought. They are interesting and definitely have a different niche than the other two. I just worry if you are going to kill your 100pt. worth with them, and that they almost always die before doing so. They are interesting, pretty deadly, I could be wrong.

Tandros: I remember when this figure first came out I thought he was really good, he reminded me of Kaemon Awa. But he never performed very well in my games with him. 7 life 4 defense is really good though. Not sure, I like him at 5, I might've put him too low in that Tier I could see him at a higher position in 5. But I haven't played too many competitive games with this figure.

Hounds: Already mentioned my thoughts on them in an above post.

MBS: I had Me-Burq-Sa higher in the 9-Tier originally, but moved him down in the final list. He's a great figure, pretty much always kills more than 50pt., sometimes much more. Gives the Romans/Deathchasers an incredibly useful tool for competing. Also a fine figure outside those army types. I guess I moved him down because I felt he didn't do as much damage as those that are higher. I could see moving him up.

Kaemon Awa: The Hydra has really hurt Kaemon's frequency in competitive play, being that they're the same points and fill pretty similar roles. Originally I had him as a high 8, but I guess I had some bias in that just because he's not as common in tournaments as he once was, but that doesn't mean he's any worse. I don't see myself dropping him from 9, but I am a bit reluctant moving him that much higher.

Eltahale: Very well could be. She's one of the units I mentioned that I need some help ranking, as I haven't had enough tournament experience/knowledge with her but I know she's good.

Mezzodemons: Same thing as Eltahale. I don't see them as being as good as Romans, that seems like a stretch to me. If I do move them up to 8 they'd likely be low. But again, I need some help with these dudes so ultimately I'm pretty lenient.

Zetacron: Zetacron I think I value much more than most people. I just think he's such a good tool to snipe powerful figures, which a lot of armies need. Not that he'll kill Q9, but does he have a good chance of dealing much needed damage to him? yes. Also I just think he's very likely to kill more that 60pt. And if not, he'll probably kill his points worth of commons at the least. He's definitely not a 9, but I value him at a high 8. Most players don't though, so I'm open to some change. Maybe it's just because he's one of my personal favorite figures haha :p

And it was quite the undertaking indeed lol. It took me about 3 weeks.


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