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-   -   Godzilla and friends (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=56021)

quozl July 29th, 2019 02:47 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
It's close but half votes are dumb. I'll wait.

tcglkn July 29th, 2019 04:10 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I abstain. Never really got into Godzilla so I wouldn’t be upset with either direction and would rather people invested in the character make the choice.

Spidey'tilIDie July 29th, 2019 07:27 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Going to see Godzilla: King of Monsters today for some inspiration, I'll vote tomorrow.

Tornado July 29th, 2019 08:31 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Love the participation level. I think we may be best served pursuing both.
What is better than Godzilla? Two. :)

Karat July 29th, 2019 09:11 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2300297)
Love the participation level. I think we may be best served pursuing both.
What is better than Godzilla? Two. :)

We can call the second Gojira.

Tornado July 29th, 2019 10:12 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Godzilla just played at the bar I am at. :)
Indy trip is looking up.

quozl July 29th, 2019 10:17 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2300334)
Godzilla just played at the bar I am at. :)
Indy trip is looking up.

Did they play their biggest hit, Blue Oyster Cult?

Tornado July 29th, 2019 10:23 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
No BOC. Just Godzilla.
They played at my local Ribfest but it is the same weekend as Gen Con.

IAmBatman July 29th, 2019 10:55 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I hear they’re big in Japan.

Tornado July 29th, 2019 11:00 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Everyone is. :)

Spidey'tilIDie July 30th, 2019 01:14 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
So, thinking about this, it would be weird for buildings to be bigger than Godzilla, but I don't think we can avoid that. So my next concerns are price and availability. With a slight nod to A for price, I'll lean that way, though B seems viable too. Will put him in the same ballpark as dinos.

quozl July 30th, 2019 01:17 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Current tally:

A. Double-space Godzilla quozl; Soundwarp SG-1; Lord Pyre; Tornado; Spidey'tilIDie;
B. Bigger than that! MrNobody; Lazy Orang; Lob5t3r; johnny139;
Abstains: Karat; Arch-vile; Yodaking; Arkham; Ronin; japes; tcglkn; IAmBatman;

Please vote: @A3n ; @LordVenoc ; @Scapemage ; @Margloth

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 01:45 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
My big concern is that if we don't make Godzilla larger than double, that'll put a sort of imaginary barrier to making anything larger than double, and there are places where, as Bats has described, it has to happen.

quozl July 30th, 2019 01:49 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Galactus is already larger than double.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 01:51 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300477)
Galactus is already larger than double.

Double-spaced movement rules is what I meant.

Bats has said that they'll be needed for some VDOs, but if Godzilla isn't that big, there'll be resistance there.

quozl July 30th, 2019 01:52 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Like I said earlier, the movement rules have already been worked out. They're the same as the DO throwing rules. We just haven't needed to use them yet.

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 01:53 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Less needed and more useful. We also have the ability, as shown by Galactus, to tackle them case by case.

Fwiw, I'm really digging quozl's approach to a simple rule set for moving them that's based on the throwing DOs rules.

Edit: :ninja: Have we officially ruled that the throwing rules are movement rules as well, quozl?

quozl July 30th, 2019 01:55 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2300480)
Less needed and more useful. We also have the ability, as shown by Galactus, to tackle them case by case.

Fwiw, I'm really digging quozl's approach to a simple rule set for moving them that's based on the throwing DOs rules.

Edit: :ninja: Have we officially ruled that the throwing rules are movement rules as well, quozl?

Yep, we worked it out a few years ago when I wanted to do a Green Construct tank.

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 01:58 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Ah, good to know. Switch me to abstain then.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 02:00 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
But... why would he be smaller than a bus? What earthly sense does that make?
And where is this? Has it been confirmed or briefly talked about, because I was not aware of this. This sounds very sketchy and as though it could be gone back on really easily.

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 02:01 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300484)
But... why would he be smaller than a bus? What earthly sense does that make?

What bus is this that he'd be smaller than?

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 02:03 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2300485)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300484)
But... why would he be smaller than a bus? What earthly sense does that make?

What bus is this that he'd be smaller than?

The sorts of VDOs you were talking about earlier?

Karat July 30th, 2019 02:15 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300486)
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2300485)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300484)
But... why would he be smaller than a bus? What earthly sense does that make?

What bus is this that he'd be smaller than?

The sorts of VDOs you were talking about earlier?

Longer, not necessarily bigger.

MrNobody July 30th, 2019 02:20 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
This is one of those debates where the further itís gone on, the more entrenched Iíve gotten on my side.

The more I think about, the more I really donít see the point of a double-spaced Godzilla. Godzilla is massive, thatís the main point of his character. Not just big, but towering. If we were manufacturing our own figures, Iíd easily want him to be the biggest one we ever made.

Sure, the biggest Godzilla we can possibly manage still probably wonít be in scale with what he should really be. But having one who has the same footprint as a sports car feels to me like having an Ant-Man who is Medium 4. Itís just not close enough to feel right. Itís always bothered me that Giant-Man and other giant characters are not even twice the height of a regular human, but at least that can be rationalized by saying itís an early career Hank who hasnít mastered growth yet or something like that.

Like if weíre doing a Godzilla at that size, what really separates him from just any other fire-breathing lizard character? What makes it exciting that itís Godzilla and not Mimring, other than the name on the card? The whole charm of doing a Godzilla design, imo, is to really push the limits of what we can do.

If it comes down to it, I guess a double-spaced Godzilla is better than no Godzilla at all. But it feels like weíre giving up on the most important aspect of this character without even trying because it seems difficult, and that drains all my enthusiasm for the idea.

quozl July 30th, 2019 02:28 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Well, the double-spaced Godzilla still has a huge tail so he'll still be longer than a bus. And he's twice as tall as Mimring.

MrNobody July 30th, 2019 02:34 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
But is he bigger than Braxas, or Optimus, or a Sentinel? The ones I’ve seen at the store have been about that size.

quozl July 30th, 2019 02:39 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
The same height as Optimus. Much bigger though.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 02:47 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2300492)
This is one of those debates where the further itís gone on, the more entrenched Iíve gotten on my side.

The more I think about, the more I really donít see the point of a double-spaced Godzilla. Godzilla is massive, thatís the main point of his character. Not just big, but towering. If we were manufacturing our own figures, Iíd easily want him to be the biggest one we ever made.

Sure, the biggest Godzilla we can possibly manage still probably wonít be in scale with what he should really be. But having one who has the same footprint as a sports car feels to me like having an Ant-Man who is Medium 4. Itís just not close enough to feel right. Itís always bothered me that Giant-Man and other giant characters are not even twice the height of a regular human, but at least that can be rationalized by saying itís an early career Hank who hasnít mastered growth yet or something like that.

Like if weíre doing a Godzilla at that size, what really separates him from just any other fire-breathing lizard character? What makes it exciting that itís Godzilla and not Mimring, other than the name on the card? The whole charm of doing a Godzilla design, imo, is to really push the limits of what we can do.

If it comes down to it, I guess a double-spaced Godzilla is better than no Godzilla at all. But it feels like weíre giving up on the most important aspect of this character without even trying because it seems difficult, and that drains all my enthusiasm for the idea.

Yeah - I don't even particularly have that much attachment to Godzilla, and this is where I'd stand.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 02:56 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300496)
The same height as Optimus. Much bigger though.

Could we see pictures of the two options on a map? See what actually looks right?
And could I have a link to where it 100% cast iron officially decided that there would be rules for moving figures with a size of more than 2 hexes and what those rules would be?

Soundwarp SG-1 July 30th, 2019 02:56 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I'm not against Godzilla being over a double space because it's 'difficult', though I do personally have zero interest in figures over a double space (double space is already clunky enough for me), I just don't see the point. Like it's just making people pay more money for a figure that is still nowhere close, not even a little bit, to the right scale for the sake 'but hey Godzilla is a big guy'.


But, to me, Godzilla being big is not the end all be all of his character. Like he's got plenty of other stuff going on, more than enough for multiple cards with unique abilities if someone really wanted to do that, 'big and fireline' is an oversimplification IMO. Plus, one of his bigger things is Godzilla fights/teams-up with other monster dudes like all the time. I'd much rather people be able to field a team of Godzillia and Mothra and Rodan that have all been shrunk for convenience instead of spending probably the same amount of money (and storage space) for one still super tiny Godzillia. Like if all of Godzillia's homies have to be giant to keep up with him, that's becoming a exponentially bigger investment for a bunch of giant things that you probably won't even be able to fit two of on like half the maps out there...

quozl July 30th, 2019 02:59 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300499)
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300496)
The same height as Optimus. Much bigger though.

Could we see pictures of the two options on a map? See what actually looks right?
And could I have a link to where it 100% cast iron officially decided that there would be rules for moving figures with a size of more than 2 hexes and what those rules would be?

I don't know if anyone has bought the smaller one yet.

The rules are in the C3G Rules/FAQ thread, first post.

Lord Pyre July 30th, 2019 03:01 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 (Post 2300500)
I'm not against Godzilla being over a double space because it's 'difficult', though I do personally have zero interest in figures over a double space (double space is already clunky enough for me), I just don't see the point. Like it's just making people pay more money for a figure that is still nowhere close, not even a little bit, to the right scale for the sake 'but hey Godzilla is a big guy'.


But, to me, Godzilla being big is not the end all be all of his character. Like he's got plenty of other stuff going on, more than enough for multiple cards with unique abilities if someone really wanted to do that, 'big and fireline' is an oversimplification IMO. Plus, one of his bigger things is Godzilla fights/teams-up with other monster dudes like all the time. I'd much rather people be able to field a team of Godzillia and Mothra and Rodan that have all been shrunk for convenience instead of spending probably the same amount of money (and storage space) for one still super tiny Godzillia. Like if all of Godzillia's homies have to be giant to keep up with him, that's becoming a exponentially bigger investment for a bunch of giant things that you probably won't even be able to fit two of on like half the maps out there...

This is my thoughts as well. I'm not attached to the character so I won't be losing any sleep either way. But being way bigger significantly reduces the chance both that I'll purchase the figure, and that I'll actually play him.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 03:04 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300501)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300499)
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300496)
The same height as Optimus. Much bigger though.

Could we see pictures of the two options on a map? See what actually looks right?
And could I have a link to where it 100% cast iron officially decided that there would be rules for moving figures with a size of more than 2 hexes and what those rules would be?

I don't know if anyone has bought the smaller one yet.

The rules are in the C3G Rules/FAQ thread, first post.

That says it's for placing figures who occupy more than one space. Not moving figures who occupy more than 2 spaces. This has not been officially decided, just as I suspected.

I might be able to be convinced to change my vote, if the more than 2 space movement rules are established, and if someone posts images of the figures in comparison with Heroscape figures and terrain.
Where are the pictures of the larger one?

quozl July 30th, 2019 03:06 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300503)
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300501)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300499)
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2300496)
The same height as Optimus. Much bigger though.

Could we see pictures of the two options on a map? See what actually looks right?
And could I have a link to where it 100% cast iron officially decided that there would be rules for moving figures with a size of more than 2 hexes and what those rules would be?

I don't know if anyone has bought the smaller one yet.

The rules are in the C3G Rules/FAQ thread, first post.

That says it's for placing figures who occupy more than one space. Not moving figures who occupy more than 2 spaces. This has not been officially decided, just as I suspected.

I might be able to be convinced to change my vote, if the more than 2 space movement rules are established, and if someone posts images of the figures in comparison with Heroscape figures and terrain.
Where are the pictures of the larger one?

Placing and moving are the same. Same thing as we voted on in the movement 3+ spaces thread.

Lord Pyre July 30th, 2019 03:06 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300503)
That says it's for placing figures who occupy more than one space. Not moving figures who occupy more than 2 spaces. This has not been officially decided, just as I suspected.

It's the same.

Yodaking July 30th, 2019 03:06 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Considering the size of Godzilla, what can a person hope to achieve by punching/kicking him, or shooting him with arrows/bullets? Maybe he's just too big of a threat for our rank and file characters to deal with.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 03:08 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yodaking (Post 2300506)
Considering the size of Godzilla, what can a person hope to achieve by punching/kicking him, or shooting him with arrows/bullets? Maybe he's just too big of a threat for our rank and file characters to deal with.

Couldn't you have said the same thing about Galactus, Anti-Monitor or Beyonder?

Soundwarp SG-1 July 30th, 2019 03:22 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yodaking (Post 2300506)
Considering the size of Godzilla, what can a person hope to achieve by punching/kicking him, or shooting him with arrows/bullets? Maybe he's just too big of a threat for our rank and file characters to deal with.

This is also part of why I specifically want to see "Godzilla, but hit by a shrink ray as soon as he lands in 'C3G World' ". Beyond matters of figure practicality, it just seems to make more sense / seems easier to balance if he's 'handicapped' a bit where other people can logically effect him in a more even manner. I just don't feel like Godzilla in his natural state is a great fit for a tactical wargame about superheroes in the first place. Even if the size stuff could be worked out, he's just from a very different genre.


----


Oh, I should also clarify that while I am very attached to Godzilla (for me anyway, I don't really do attachments in general), and have consumed like a solid 75% of all Godzilla/Gojira media that's available, I'm also not going to really fight anyone over this.

MrNobody July 30th, 2019 03:45 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I’m not saying being huge is the only feature of his character, but I do think it’s the biggest (pun not intended) one. If somebody describes a character as Godzilla-esque, the first thing I’m thinking of is that the character must be big and destructive, not that they breath atomic fire or that they’re an expression of the fears of the collective Japanese subconscious or whatever.

I will admit that the idea of expanding the Godzilla-verse in C3G changes things a bit. I can see your logic there, but I’m not sure potentially putting Mothra in the game really justifies watering down Godzilla himself.

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 03:46 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300486)
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2300485)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2300484)
But... why would he be smaller than a bus? What earthly sense does that make?

What bus is this that he'd be smaller than?

The sorts of VDOs you were talking about earlier?

Spaceships and the Helicarrier, primarily.

Seems rules are in place, though

quozl July 30th, 2019 04:11 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
There may be a big difference in generations here too. For the first 20 years of Godzilla, 1954-1973, he was about 150 feet tall. The current Godzilla in the movies is about 400 feet tall.

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 04:12 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I'm more familiar with OG 'Zilla.

MrNobody July 30th, 2019 04:23 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I see him as a lot like Batman where his portrayal changes based on what’s needed for the story. That could be an argument for multiple versions, like a ginormous smashy smashy version and a smaller team-up/crossover version.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 04:23 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2300540)
I see him as a lot like Batman where his portrayal changes based on whatís needed for the story. That could be an argument for multiple versions, like a ginormous smashy smashy version and a smaller team-up/crossover version.

I could see that.

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 04:37 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Me too. I change my vote to C, both. :-D I think there's room for two Godzilla designs and that best fits the ultimate goal of more people actually playing Godzilla.

quozl July 30th, 2019 04:43 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
Are you going to vote for everything?

Current votes:

A. Double-space Godzilla quozl; Lord Pyre; Tornado; Spidey'tilIDie;
B. Bigger than that! Lob5t3r; johnny139;
C. Both for different versions IAmBatman; MrNobody; Lazy Orang; Karat; Yodaking; Soundwarp SG-1; A3n;
Abstains: Arch-vile; Arkham; Ronin; japes; tcglkn;

Please vote: @LordVenoc ; @Scapemage ; @Margloth

IAmBatman July 30th, 2019 04:44 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
We've had a lot of discussion after the initial vote proposal and I've stayed open to it and changed my vote accordingly. I've now reached the side I feel most confident in and urge you all to change your votes to C as well.

Lazy Orang July 30th, 2019 04:46 PM

Re: Margloth's Ex-Hero Ramblings Thread
 
I vote C

He seems to have gone through enough changes and been used in enough different way over the years to justify two versions.


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