Heroscapers

Heroscapers (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/index.php)
-   Misc Customs Project Forum (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=74)
-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred June 17th, 2015 11:44 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Sure. The change came from research. If Kratos dies, he doesn't drop his Glyphs ever - He "loses" his Glyphs. Minor adjustment, but losing isn't dropping according to official Heroscape rules.

Dysole June 17th, 2015 11:52 PM

FYI
 
As it's written if he is carrying multiple glyphs, all but one will be destroyed when he dies since a glyph can not be placed on top of a glyph.

~Dysole, informationally

Confred June 18th, 2015 01:13 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@Dysole Godly Artifacts covers that. Kratos has the option of destroying his Glyphs or placing them on spaces he previously occupied or on spaces adjacent to spaces he previously occupied.
Currently there is no stipulation that he must place them on empty spaces. We may add that if we wish, but having the option to destroy them doesn't break theme and saves complexity and space.

The last comparison:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trex
CLIMB FROM TARTARUS
At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 18 or higher, immediately place Kratos on an empty space on the battlefield that is not higher than the base of any other figure on the battlefield. If Kratos is destroyed and there are no other figures you control left on the Battlefield you may immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred
CLIMB FROM TARTARUS
Before removing an order marker, if Kratos is destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, remove all wounds from this card and place Kratos on any empty space that is not adjacent to any opponent's figure and is no higher than any figure's base. If Kratos is destroyed and is your only figure on the battlefield, before removing his figure from the battlefield, Kratos may immediately attempt to Climb From Tartarus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX
The wording is pretty much the same on Climb from Tartarus with the exception on when you roll for it. I very much prefer that it gets rolled at the start of your next turn that way. (With the exception of rolling it immediately if he's the last one standing on your team.)

The wording pretty much is the same. When you roll for it is also the same.
1) @TREX 's version says "At the start of each of your turns" mine says "Before removing an order marker". You only really remove an order marker at the beginning of your turn. Trex's version is modeled after Thanos, so I can relent to those wordings; I think the Thanos version allows Kratos to roll twice if bonding is involved, but I'm not certain.
My version didn't really model itself after a particular card. I wanted the power to happen on your turn, and if successful and the order marker is on Kratos' card, he may take that turn.
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, I'd rather use the Thanos version:
At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die.
2) Next is what happens when you roll. Trex's version forgot the bit about removing wounds. Thanos' version removes the wounds after placing the figure, mine removes them before. I speculate the reason why Thanos does it this way is to follow the Power-Limit-Restriction model. The point of the power isn't to remove wounds; its to return the figure. Altering the wounds is a restriction/side effect. I agree with Thanos. Next is placing the figure. I added the extra restriction of not being able to place him next to opponent's figures. In retrospect this point is moot because that one extra space won't amount to much and is thus just wasted card space. Trex's version mentions the battlefield, neither my version nor Thanos' version does. I don't think it's necessary. I think "other figure's" can be trimmed to "figure's" because even if you include Kratos, you'll never place him higher than himself.
3) Last bit deals with Kratos rolling when he dies and is the last figure in your army on the battlefield. Mine has three parts, If destroyed - before removing figure - "roll for Climb" vs "attempt to Climb".
The If destroyed segments between the two versions are close to each other. Mine uses fewer words. The second segment was included so you wouldn't lose the game outright and give you the opportunity to roll. Research has revealed that this line isn't needed. Victory conditions are not scored immediately; they are scored at the end of the turn. Trex's version is sufficient here with his "immediately".
The third segment deals in flavor. I've noticed many many official cards deal with informal language. Kratos may attempt to Climb From Tartarus or You may immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus.
Results:
Quote:

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18 (A)
At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, place Kratos on any empty space that is no higher than any figure's base and immediately remove all wound markers from this card. If Kratos is destroyed and is your only figure on the battlefield, you may immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus.
Ordering doesn't seem right. The final sentence seems tacked on. I moved the last line to the top and that didn't look right either. I deleted that version as it wasn't even worth displaying.
Quote:

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18 (A2)
At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, place Kratos on any empty space that is no higher than any figure's base and immediately remove all wound markers from this card. Each time Kratos is destroyed and is your only figure on the battlefield, roll for Climb From Tartarus.
Quote:

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18 (B)
At the end of each player's turn after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, place Kratos on any empty space that is no higher than any figure's base and immediately remove all wound markers from this card.
This version allows Kratos one chance to not lose after he is destroyed. Placing it at the end also implies Kratos used turn's worth of effort to Climb, which was the feeling we wanted. It does however let us roll for Kratos more times in multiplayer events, which isn't terrible and could be fun - yet should still be mentioned and considered
Quote:

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18 (C)
You don't lose the game if Kratos is destroyed and you control no other figures on the battlefield. At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, place Kratos on any empty space that is no higher than any figure's base and immediately remove all wound markers from this card. If you control no figures on the battlefield and lose initiative, you lose the game.
Silly

Dysole June 18th, 2015 01:34 PM

Right
 
Didn't notice it had migrated over to the glyphs. We're good.

I also like your updated version of Tartarus.

~Dysole, all for now

Tornado June 18th, 2015 01:49 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Looking forward to the final product. Really impressive work here.

TREX June 18th, 2015 08:50 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Kratos
Quote:

Demigod
Unique Hero
Warrior
Ruthless
Medium 5

Move 6
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Life 6
300 points

Quote:

BY THE GODS
Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card. Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts during his movement. By The Gods can place a maximum of 5 Glyphs on this card.

VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
Each time Kratos attacks using a normal or special attack, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.

BLADES OF EXILE
If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add +2 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack.

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS
Before revealing an order marker, if Kratos is destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, remove all wounds from this card and place Kratos on any empty space that is not adjacent to any opponent's figure and is no higher than any figure's base. If Kratos is destroyed and is your only figure on the battlefield, before removing his figure from the battlefield, Kratos may immediately attempt to Climb From Tartarus.
Does all of it look good now to everyone to press on. @Confred , I updated with your new version of climb from tartarus, only thing I can see now is, should removing be replaced with revealing an order marker. If you guys are done configuring wording, I am ok to continue. I'll go back and find all the latest Glyphs that were finished up and add them to this post.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf3dakuqu.jpg






http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psijskfhkx.jpg
Arrows of Apollo Special Attack
Range 9. Attack 2.
When attacking a figure without the Lava Resistant Special Power, every time you roll a skull you may roll 1 additional attack die. You may continue to roll additional attack dice until you fail to roll a skull.
@JC McMinis , Maybe add in the Special attack name as suggested by @Dysole and @McHotcakes .
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjyfoedny.jpg
These also look good with the exception of the Edit you were going to do. The Godly Artifact wording at the top.
I believe this is what we are settled on at the moment. If everyone is ok with these we can have JcMcMinis get us some finished versions of Kratos and the 3 glyphs we have currenty "Finished". Then we can finish out the last couple glyphs, settle on a point cost.(300 for now..and for sparta.:))and finish of the beast of a scape hero. Good work so far everyone, he has exceeded my vision of awesomeness some time ago.

Dysole June 18th, 2015 09:29 PM

FYI
 
I consulted with dok and he said the wording of Obsidian Crush Special Attack is ambiguous in regards to extra skulls.

~Dysole, with no other complaints

McHotcakes June 18th, 2015 11:11 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX (Post 2028671)
BY THE GODS
Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card. Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts during his movement. By The Gods can place a maximum of 5 Glyphs on this card.

Is it place 5 Godly Artifacts on this card per game or at a time? If one of the Glyphs Kratos is carrying is destroyed then can Kratos get that glyph back using By The Gods?

These are some questions I think we need to answer before moving on.

Also yes I still think we should separate the powers given with the Godly Artifact cards from the initial description.

JC McMinis June 19th, 2015 06:20 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I will try to get updated cards up later today. Been busy the past few days spending some time with the family.

Confred June 19th, 2015 09:01 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@TREX with your update, some of the power wordings are of older versions which have been debunked and some, like Blades Of Exile introduce things like "+2", which are incorrect.
For each of the powers I created versions and put a letter in parenthesis such as (A). The idea was so the versions could be referenced and have members say "I prefer (E) or (A2)" etc.
Without further ado, here is a list of the most approved updated versions:
Quote:

BY THE GODS
Each time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card to a maximum of five Glyphs this game. Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts.

BLADES OF EXILE
If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add 2 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack.

VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
When Kratos attacks with a normal or special attack, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time. Kratos may continue attacking with normal or special attacks until he doesn’t roll at least two skulls to a maximum of three additional times.

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS 18
At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 18 or higher, place Kratos on any empty space that is no higher than any figure's base and immediately remove all wound markers from this card. Each time Kratos is destroyed and is your only figure on the battlefield, roll for Climb From Tartarus.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...f_original.jpg
Edit: POINTS 300
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes
Is it place 5 Godly Artifacts on this card per game or at a time? If one of the Glyphs Kratos is carrying is destroyed then can Kratos get that glyph back using By The Gods?

"place a Glyph" places 1 Glyph at a time. to a maximum of 5 ever placed this game.
If a Glyph is destroyed or lost, Kratos may indeed be regifted it By The Gods. The replacement still counts against the 5.
Should 5 reduce to 3?

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes
Also yes I still think we should separate the powers given with the Godly Artifact cards from the initial description.

I agree

TREX June 19th, 2015 05:58 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@Confred , the latest version of By the Gods could create some confusion. Saying Kratos cannot drop glyphs on his cards implies that he might keep them when dying. I know that is not the precedent for glyph carrying, but it could still be confusing. If I am alone on the subject then it can be changed. I must have not quite got what your were getting at on the Blades of Exile +2 thing, that is why I put it in there. At this point I am pretty impartial on how its worded. I just want the point to get across in a non confusing way. I like that we can get up to 5 glyphs on his card. I think we should leave it. If we want to only make 5 that is fine. Five items is not even close to the amount of things he can do, but I feel it isn't too many. As we have already pretty much designed three of them. With the exception of my one concern about Kratos not dropping glyphs, I am good on the subject.

Taeblewalker June 19th, 2015 06:49 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I don't mind the idea of the glyphs staying with him when he dies. They could follow him to Tartarus and then come back with him when he rises.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.