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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred March 16th, 2013 08:33 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm feeling that the Downloading aspect is slipping away from the core theme of the character Neo.

mac122 March 16th, 2013 09:24 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1782132)
I'm feeling that the Downloading aspect is slipping away from the core theme of the character Neo.

How so? What is the core theme in your mind?

Taeblewalker March 17th, 2013 04:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
We should probably try to represent as many of his abilities as we can through his stats. For example, Kung Fu needn't be a power. Manipulate The Matrix does an excellent job of utilizing his base stats to simulate much of what happens in the movies.

Lots of Guns really does the rest, unless Mac wants to get into the later powers like flight and resurrection, which he doesn't.

If it came down to adding in any of those later powers, we could add a line MtM that says "If Neo is destroyed by wounds, roll a 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, remove all wound markers from this army card."

Trinity could have a power similar to Sonya Esenwein's Eternal Strength, boosting Neo's D20 roll by two.

Confred March 17th, 2013 08:45 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1782141)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1782132)
I'm feeling that the Downloading aspect is slipping away from the core theme of the character Neo.

How so? What is the core theme in your mind?

I'm thinking that Neo is a straight forward and somewhat basic character that Morpheus, The Oracle, the Operator, and even Trinity enhance.

The only power thus far I'm confident with is his Stealth Dodge variant.

mac122 March 18th, 2013 10:46 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
So, Neo is just an advanced form of a Krav Maga Agent? To me, Information Download is what sets Neo apart from just another Heroscape character. To say the download gets away from the core of the character dismisses the vital role that played in his development. He had the innate ability to manipulate the Matrix, but lacked the confidence to expand his mind. The skills gained by the downloads increased his abilities which finally allowed him to fully master the Matrix.

If you want to change the mechanics of it, we can work with that. Change the number of powers allowed, eliminate the changes between rounds, only add powers by using the X marker, etc. There are many ways to change it.

I'd like to hear from a few more in the group. If it turns out a majority want ID to go, I'll go along with it.

Balantai March 18th, 2013 11:55 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I actually like the information download idea. We can't really create Neo with the assumption that we will be creating any of the other Matrix members. With that being said, we should get as much theme on this card as possible.

Confred March 18th, 2013 09:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
This is my 'vanilla' version of Neo
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2...014b0cac90.png
I've put him in my customs so I can get that version of design out of my head and focus on yours.

I think the Leap is iconic. He only avoids engagement if he's jumping over, not if he's jumping alongside or away from. He jumps over gaps and water, unless already starting in water. He doesn't take fall damage because he realizes the fall is a lie.

With my version of MtM, he moves fast in both attacking and defending.
He has his default weapons that he can shoot 3 times, or if he were to acquire more, he could shoot those. I don't mind him multi shooting with height advantage - Neo would.

As an added bonus, if he is negated, he becomes his normal non-Matrix-y human self.

I doubt any of the above will stick, but what I would like to hang onto, and I'll bold it, is Einar.
Einar is the faction of Man
Vydar is faction of Machine/future
Man vs Machine
Einar vs Vydar
(I know Agent Smith is Valkrill, but that's virus Agent Smith, not his system-abiding self)

orgsbane March 18th, 2013 09:37 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Wrong Forum post.... Awkward.

William099 March 18th, 2013 10:41 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I like information download and think it should be kept frankly.

McHotcakes March 18th, 2013 11:58 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1783581)
I doubt any of the above will stick, but what I would like to hang onto, and I'll bold it, is Einar.
Einar is the faction of Man
Vydar is faction of Machine/future
Man vs Machine
Einar vs Vydar
(I know Agent Smith is Valkrill, but that's virus Agent Smith, not his system-abiding self)

I have to disagree about Einar being the faction of man.

I've always believed that generals represented what motivated a character to fight rather than their theme is. The way I think about it is

Jandar-Order/Justice
Ullar-Intelligence/Spirituality
Aquilla-Nature/Rebellion
Valkrill-Chaos/Fear
Utgar- Power/Strength
Einar- Empire/Militarism
Vydar- Money/Self-Preservation

All of the Einar units, or at least most of them, are highly disciplined militaristic soldiers known for having vast and strong empires, like the Romans and the British. Neo just doesn't fit in with them. If anything I'd say the agents from the Matrix are closer to Einar than Neo is IMO.

I initially suggested Ullar or Aquilla as the whole "free your mind Neo" seems to fit in with my vision of Ullar, and the freedom fighter fits in with my vision of Aquilla. And the nature aspect of Aquilla also reflects Neo's anti machine aspect as well. So I'd lean towards Aquilla as his general.

Balantai March 19th, 2013 04:16 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Mac,

Can we get an updated version when you have time? I personally think we should keep the 'download' theme, but it's your design.

mac122 March 19th, 2013 04:43 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Neo
Aquilla or Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Champion
Bold
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6
Range 7
Attack 3
Defense 4
Points ???

INFORMATION DOWNLOAD
Begin the game with up to 6 Power Glyphs. At the start of each round, before placing Order Markers, remove any Power Glyphs on this card and place any 2 Power Glyphs on this card. After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, if Neo is unengagd, you may also reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card to place 1 additional Power Glyph on this card.

MANIPULATE THE MATRIX (or THE ONE (?))
When Neo rolls defense dice against an attacking figure who is not adjacent, one shield will block all damage. When Neo rolls defense dice against an adjacent attacking figure, if he rolls at least one shield, the most wounds he may take for this attack is one.


This design could use the Power Glyphs designed for Thomas Hunter.
Additional Power Glyph possibilities:
Phantom Walk
Ninjutsu Barrage Special Attack
Freerunner (from the Ezio Auditore design)
Lots of Guns SA
-This Power Glyph may only be placed on a figure with a Range number of 4 or higher. When this figure makes a normal attack, it may reduce its Attack number by 1 and its Range number by 1. If it does, it may attack up to 3 additional times.
Kung Fu SA I think Whirlwind Assault represents this quite well.
Basically what I had before. I can see the logic behind Aquilla or Einar over Jandar. I'm leaning a bit toward Aquilla, since Neo would tie in with the theme of the M-43 Resistance Fighters struggling against Soulborgs. I wouldn't be against Einar, though.

I really think that Information Download needs to stay. I believe it's thematic and a cool mechanic. I could see tweaking it a bit if a majority feel it's too powerful with the constant changing.

Something like this would let Neo have up to 3, but you'd have to be more careful in your choices.
Quote:

INFORMATION DOWNLOAD
Begin the game with up to 6 Power Glyphs. At the start of the game, before placing Order Markers, choose 1 Power Glyph and place it on this card. Twice per game, after revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, if Neo is unengaged, you may also reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card to place 1 additional Power Glyph on this card.
We could also make it 2 at the beginning and once per game, or draw down the power and make it 1 and 1 addtional.


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