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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

mac122 March 11th, 2013 03:19 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 1778475)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1778434)
Shaolin Monks originated the leap power and they learned it through training ;)

I agree with this. I have no problem with Stealth Leap being learnable to a normal person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1778434)
Have Many Guns be a Special Attack special power gained via Download.

I also agree with this.

Also the more I think about it the more I feel like Neo's army would be Ullar. I feel like his Kung Fu and the whole philosophy aspect of The Matrix is enough for him to qualify for membership.

I could also seem him as Aquilla, since he's rebellious and fighting against a repressive regime.

Stealth Leap, I could go along with, but I still think it's a bit much. I'd like to get some other opinions on it. To Balantai's general point, we need to make sure that any power glyphs we create would not break Thomas Hunter or any future design.

I don't have a problem with a power glyph that allows Neo multiple ranged attacks in a turn, but Lots of Guns SA would still need to go on Neo's card. The premise behind the phrase "lots of guns" comes from the scene where Neo and Trinity are preparing to rescue Morpheus. They got "lots of guns" before they entered the Matrix, not after. The Operator could not send more equipment, only information. I don't agree that Lots of Guns SA should be downloaded. We should stay away from powers for glyphs that assume the figure will have tons of weaponry. That sort of SA would break Thomas Hunter. I think we can achieve a similar result with something like a Triple Attack power Glyph without fear breaking other designs.

Also, for Kung Fu, we already have Whirlwind Assault which allows attacks against any or all adjacent figures. I don't know what else you want in Kung Fu.

Before the C3V released Kira Jax and the M43 Resistance fighters, I would disagree with Aquilla as a General for Neo. But now it seems a decent fit. I could go along with that. Not sure Ullar fits, though.

Lamaclown March 11th, 2013 04:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1778485)
Before the C3V released Kira Jax and the M43 Resistance fighters, I would disagree with Aquilla as a General for Neo. But now it seems a decent fit. I could go along with that. Not sure Ullar fits, though.

Ah, what do those C3V hacks know... bunch of amateurs ;)

Sorry for my absence. The internet was not friendly to me this weekend.

I agree that Lots of Guns should be a SA on Neo's card for much the same reason mac has given.

I also like Aquilla as a pick for general. It does seem at first glance that Vydar would be the natural pick but Neo uses technology to fight against the more menacing enemy of technology run amok, much like the Mariedians against the Soulborg. Neo and the Mariedians seem like they could be best buds. :)

William099 March 11th, 2013 11:07 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1778273)
Kung Fu and Lots of Guns as power glyphs are fine with me.

I don't agree with the base attack of 1. We're not creating "Mr. Anderson". I think we need to assume he has some ability, just not the specialized skills downloaded. With a base attack of 1, power glyphs like Whirlwind Assault would be useless for Neo, which would be quite the waste.

I'm willing to consider another general, but Vydar doesn't feel quite right. Neo, Morpheus, and the rest are risking their lives in a fight to save humanity - a pretty noble cause. That sort of self-sacrifice and nobility doesn't fit with Vydar.

Quote:

Neo
Jandar ???

Human
Unique Hero
Champion
Bold
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6
Range 7
Attack 3
Defense 4
Points ???

INFORMATION DOWNLOAD
Begin the game with up to 6 Power Glyphs. At the start of each round, before placing Order Markers, remove any Power Glyphs on this card and place any 2 Power Glyphs on this card. After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, if Neo is unengagd, you may also reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card to place 1 additional Power Glyph on this card.

MANIPULATE THE MATRIX
When Neo rolls defense dice against an attacking figure who is not adjacent, one shield will block all damage. When Neo rolls defense dice against an adjacent attacking figure, if he rolls at least one shield, the most wounds he may take for this attack is one.


This design could use the Power Glyphs designed for Thomas Hunter.
Additional Power Glyph possibilities:
Flying
Rejected by Death
Phantom Walk
Ninjutsu Barrage Special Attack
Freerunner (from the Ezio Auditore design)
Lots of Guns SA
Kung Fu SA

I like this version of Neo with the power glyphs... I feel keep the power set he has and give him the power glyphs:
Tactical Switch
Whirlwind Assault
Freerunner
Phantom Walk
Ninjutsu Barrage Special Attack

And I feel like with that setup putting Lots of Guns on his card would seal the deal.

Considering that this is kinda intended to be the preflying Neo I feel it should also be the pre Rejected by Death Neo... I don't really see that one fitting him.

Confred March 12th, 2013 01:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Usefulness aside, I think a Safe Fall type power glyph should be in the list because they jump and fall from buildings without dying because they know the 'truth'.

EMP blast should perhaps be in there too.

Vydar: I'm agreeing now that Neo is not Vydar's Champion. I could even argue that Neo's main antagonist IS Vydar

Mac: They don't bring guns into The Matrix? They only bring themselves, everything else, even technically their appearance is matrix formed. Their glasses, their trench-coats, their guns, it's all coding, it's all stuff added - downloaded.

mac122 March 12th, 2013 01:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 1779083)
Mac: They don't bring guns into The Matrix? They only bring themselves, everything else, even technically their appearance is matrix formed. Their glasses, their trench-coats, their guns, it's all coding, it's all stuff added - downloaded.

Yes, they bring guns into the Matrix, but it's only what they are precoded with. The operator couldn't send them additional equipment once they were in. That's why I'm against power glyphs that would suggest the figure is receiving more weapons.

Confred March 12th, 2013 01:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Mac: Ahh I see what you mean, kind of like how they had to get to a phone or other terminal for some of the more advanced things. - Sounds like a scenario specific glyph/condition then.

Taeblewalker March 14th, 2013 01:36 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
How about:

DIRTY HACK 8
At the start of the game, decide whether to put Neo on the battlefield. If you do not, then at the beginning of each round, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 8 or higher, you may place him on any empty space on the board. You may also place up to four equipment glyphs on his army card. Neo may not be placed adjacent to any figures when he is placed with Dirty Hack.

Balantai March 15th, 2013 12:23 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
That's a super fun ability, Taeblewalker, but I think I'd rather just have Neo with a SA that represented the guns.

LOTS OF GUNS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 2.
When Neo attacks with his Lots of Guns Special Attack, he may attack with this special attack 3 additional times.

I just worry about giving a bunch of figures ranged attacks that aren't meant to be able to attack at range. It will turn Neo into an odd draft figure.
"I'll equip my machine gun to Raelin and equip my sniper rifle to Sgt. Drake."

mac122 March 15th, 2013 01:16 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Well, we did create a rifle treasure glyph that could fall into the hands of Sgt. Drake during a game...
:runaway:

I think I'd prefer Neo to start the game on the battlefield. I have thought about a Glyph of Operator that would let you remove a figure from the battlefield and then return them on a later turn. It would simulate Neo getting to a phone and being pulled out of the Matrix before an agent could get him. Of course, you'd have to have at least one other figure still on the board or you'd lose the game.

I see two options that I could go with for Neo
1. The current version with only Information Download and Manipulate the Matrix. ID allows 2 power glyphs at the beginning of a round and the potential addition of 1 more with an X marker. Neo has a base range of 5 or 6. A power glyph could give him multiple attacks to simulate Lots of Guns.

2. ID, Lots of Guns SA, and MtM. ID allows 1 power glyph at the beginning of a round and the potential addition of one more with an X marker. Neo could still have a base range of 5 or 6, but would probably be range 1 considering the LoG SA.

I prefer option 1, but if the majority really wants LoG SA on the card, I can go for that.

Balantai March 15th, 2013 01:40 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
My only concern would be that a power glyph that gave you multiple normal attacks has the potential to be very strong. It will force us to keep normal attacks very low for anyone that uses a power glyph.

Why do you have it so that the power glyphs are removed at the beginning of a round. What's the thematic reasoning? I thought they knew the information permanently once they're downloaded.

mac122 March 15th, 2013 03:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1781249)
My only concern would be that a power glyph that gave you multiple normal attacks has the potential to be very strong. It will force us to keep normal attacks very low for anyone that uses a power glyph.

Why do you have it so that the power glyphs are removed at the beginning of a round. What's the thematic reasoning? I thought they knew the information permanently once they're downloaded.

I think you can add other caveats to a multiple attack power to help keep it from being overpowered. "When making a normal attack, this figure may subtract 1 die from its attack and attack X additional times." Or "When making a normal attack against a non-adjacent figure, you may reduce the Range number of this figure by Y. If you do, this figure may attack X additional times." Or some other tweak.

The changing glyphs was an attempt to let Neo use alot of different abilities without allowing the figure to become overpowered. Neo could download the info he needed for the current situation. Except for the variability between rounds, it's not that different from other Scape figures. The powers on the cards represent only a portion of what a particular figure could do in real life.

William099 March 15th, 2013 07:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Of these options I like option 2 best. What if for information download you treated it like the C3G's most recent Batman? At the beginning of the game choose 6 glyphs to place on the card, and each glyph can only be used once during the game?


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