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-   -   The Book of Science Police (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35151)

A3n March 11th, 2011 08:22 PM

The Book of Science Police
 
The Book of Science Police

C3G DC WAVE 7
THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE



The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Unleased set.
Its model number and name are #010-012 / Science Police.
_________________________________________________________________
Character Bio - Also referred to as the World-Wide Police, the Science Police serve the United Planets in the 30th and 31st century. They have had various relations with the Legion of Super-Heroes sometimes amicable sometimes not.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities
  • N/A
Benefits
  • N/A
Weaknesses
  • Science Police cannot use their Extreme Prejudice special power if they attack a Human figure. Current Humans.
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
  • Initial playtest: Tcglkn
  • Second playtest: Johnny139 (80 points)
  • Third playtest: Scapemage (90-100 points)
  • Photos: Griffin
  • Art: A3n

A3n March 11th, 2011 08:23 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
NAME = SCIENCE POLICE


SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD (3)
CLASS = LAWMEN
PERSONALITY = INDIGNANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2

POINTS = 85


EXTREME PREJUDICE
When you take a turn with the Science Police, if you do not attack a Human figure during the turn, you may attack with up to 6 Science Police you control.

REINFORCEMENTS ON THE WAY
After taking a turn with the Science Police, if you attacked an opponent's figure this turn, you may move up to 4 Science Police that did not move or attack this turn.

tcglkn March 11th, 2011 08:38 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Am I reading this right that you can get a potential 12 attacks per turn?

A3n March 11th, 2011 08:40 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
comic pics could be an issue.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5bcfpMCxb6...mental+lad.jpg

http://www.comicvine.com/science-pol...28/105-715019/

http://www.comicvine.com/science-pol...ce/105-375817/

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pScx8BN4h3...man+690-04.jpg

A3n March 11th, 2011 08:43 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1362896)
Am I reading this right that you can get a potential 12 attacks per turn?

Oops sorry I was supposed to have dropped that down to a squad of 3. But yes it's 9 attacks per turn.

tcglkn March 11th, 2011 08:46 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
9 isn't as bad as 12, but that's still a lot. How much do you want them to cost? I could see them being 120-140 as is.

SirGalahad March 11th, 2011 08:46 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1362896)
Am I reading this right that you can get a potential 12 attacks per turn?

Nah, just 9. ;)

A3n March 11th, 2011 08:49 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1362901)
9 isn't as bad as 12, but that's still a lot. How much do you want them to cost? I could see them being 120-140 as is.

Seriously? I was predicting around 70. They only have 2 attack & defense. :shrug:

IAmBatman March 11th, 2011 10:25 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
HYDRA Agents are 2/2, but they also have 6 move, 6 range, four figures, and hero bonding for their 80 points.
9 attacks per turn could be really nasty, but also probably not real easy to pull off looking at it. I think I'd start at 80 and go from there.
Call For Backup is already a power title on Commissioner Gordon, so that power will need to be called something else.
This image is probably the best of the bunch you posted, A3n.

tcglkn March 12th, 2011 12:47 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Yea I just kinda posted that on the fly. Thinking over it's the Marro Drones are similar, but only cost 50 points. Of course you have to draft the Hive to bring them back so 70-80 points feels good. Leaning towards the 80.

Good Pig March 12th, 2011 12:59 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
12-16? or 18-19?

Either way one of these numbers needs to change

If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police
If you roll 17-19, choose 2 previously destroyed Science Police

tcglkn March 12th, 2011 01:02 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
I thought a 17 gave you 3 figures back. :p

A3n March 12th, 2011 01:08 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1362979)
HYDRA Agents are 2/2, but they also have 6 move, 6 range, four figures, and hero bonding for their 80 points.
9 attacks per turn could be really nasty, but also probably not real easy to pull off looking at it. I think I'd start at 80 and go from there.

This was more in-line with my thoughts. Plus it isn't going to be that easy to get the extra attacks as it's only those that haven't moved this turn that get to do the additional attacking.
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1362979)
Call For Backup is already a power title on Commissioner Gordon, so that power will need to be called something else.
This image is probably the best of the bunch you posted, A3n.

How about just CALL FOR SUPPORT then?

Cheers

IAmBatman March 12th, 2011 01:37 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Maybe Call for Reinforcements? After all, the power itself is pretty similar to the C3G Glyph of Reinforcements.

Griffin March 12th, 2011 02:01 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
I think it is a must for these guys to have extreme prejudice work against non-humans only.

A3n March 12th, 2011 02:44 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1363096)
I think it is a must for these guys to have extreme prejudice work against non-humans only.

No that's not even right, I thought that at first, but it's "supers" they don't like. Whether they be human or otherwise. My best thought in that direction was "Unique Hero or Event Hero".

IAmBatman March 12th, 2011 02:54 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Well by "supers" do you mean they actually have powers? Because with our use of Mutate, Metahuman, and Mutant, going "non-human" should cover that ...

Griffin March 12th, 2011 02:59 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Exactly. :word: Humans are not supers, but they can be super heroes. A3n, are you saying that they hate all super heroes, or just people with super powers?

A3n March 12th, 2011 03:04 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1363118)
Exactly. :word: Humans are not supers, but they can be super heroes. A3n, are you saying that they hate all super heroes, or just people with super powers?

from what I recall of these guys they hated anybody trying to do what they believe is their duly appointed job.

Having said that I think we can make it just people with powers so I am happy with non-human.

Cheers

SirGalahad March 12th, 2011 10:19 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Last power should have "20 or higher"

Griffin March 12th, 2011 10:38 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
EXTREME PREJUDICE
After attacking with a Science Police, if possible you may attack the same figure with up to 2 other Science Police that were not moved this turn.


As worded, this could be a near never ending chain of attacks. I move 3 out of 12 police. I then attack Beyonder with 1 that moved. I then immediately attack Beyonder with 2 police that didn't move, and that "first" attack of 2 is also going to trigger another 2 attacks, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, etc.


What do you think about a simple power that is just very straight forward (something I like to do for common squads)?
EXTREME PREJUDICE
When Science Police attack an opponent's figure that is not a Human, roll 2 additional attack dice.

Griffin March 12th, 2011 10:46 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
I hate to do this, because I know at this point I am just telling you that I don't care for the entire writeup, but I have to be honest here.

CALL FOR SUPPORT
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police.
If you roll 17-19, choose 2 previously destroyed Science Police.
If you roll 20, choose 4 previously destroyed Science Police.
One at a time, place each chosen Science Police on an empty space within 2 spaces of any other Science Police you control on the battlefield.
  1. We already have a glyph that does this sort of thing.
  2. These guys are going to regenerate WAY too quickly and consistently
  3. when put into a power like this, this makes the design feel like zombies to me.
  4. we already have a "backup" power for them on Gordon.
I think this power should be scrapped altogether and traded for something more science like. :reapershrug:

IAmBatman March 12th, 2011 11:42 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
I wonder if Call For Support couldn't work more like Gordon's Call For Backup in that it just lets you move more of these guys around on the battlefield?

A3n March 12th, 2011 06:30 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1363213)
EXTREME PREJUDICE
After attacking with a Science Police, if possible you may attack the same figure with up to 2 other Science Police that were not moved this turn.

As worded, this could be a near never ending chain of attacks. I move 3 out of 12 police. I then attack Beyonder with 1 that moved. I then immediately attack Beyonder with 2 police that didn't move, and that "first" attack of 2 is also going to trigger another 2 attacks, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, etc.

Then help solve that issue.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1363213)
What do you think about a simple power that is just very straight forward (something I like to do for common squads)?
EXTREME PREJUDICE
When Science Police attack an opponent's figure that is not a Human, roll 2 additional attack dice.

:yawn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1363221)
I hate to do this, because I know at this point I am just telling you that I don't care for the entire writeup, but I have to be honest here.

CALL FOR SUPPORT
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police.
If you roll 17-19, choose 2 previously destroyed Science Police.
If you roll 20, choose 4 previously destroyed Science Police.
One at a time, place each chosen Science Police on an empty space within 2 spaces of any other Science Police you control on the battlefield.
  1. We already have a glyph that does this sort of thing.
  2. These guys are going to regenerate WAY too quickly and consistently
  3. when put into a power like this, this makes the design feel like zombies to me.
  4. we already have a "backup" power for them on Gordon.
I think this power should be scrapped altogether and traded for something more science like. :reapershrug:

  1. We have a glyph for just about everything now, so should we stop putting powers on any cards :shrug:
  2. Simple, the numbers can be adjusted.
  3. That's just a shift in your role playing ability.
  4. Gordon's "backup" is just about moving them around the battlefield, not bringing more onto the battlefield.
    There is nothing "science like" for these guys, that's just their name. They have all the latest in gear & equipment. They believe they are the only ones that are qualified to carry out law-enforcement. When they call for back-up their support comes almost instantly usually riding flying police cycles which they just drop straight down off to surround the suspect. They really only capture the super villains by their sheer numbers.
These guys really are about numbers working together & that's what I am aiming at here.

Cheers

IAmBatman March 12th, 2011 07:00 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
If we adjust the numbers, Call for Support (still think it should be "Reinforcements" to echo the glyph :-P ) is workable for me.
Extreme Prejudice is going to be a challenge ...

tcglkn March 13th, 2011 12:19 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
[QUOTE = Original]After attacking a non-human with a Science Police moved this turn, if possible you may attack the same figure with up to 2 other Science Police that were not moved this turn.
[/QUOTE]

Extreme Prejudice
After attacking a figure that is not a Human with a Science Police figure that moved this turn, if possible you may attack the same figure with up to 2 other Science Police that were not moved this turn.

IAmBatman March 13th, 2011 03:42 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
So the "moved" and "not moved" distinctions, which I think are pretty clear, would restrict it to nine attacks at max here.
I wonder if lowering these guys to a two figure squad, and thus restricting it to six attacks at max, would be a good way to go?

A3n March 13th, 2011 05:17 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1363897)
So the "moved" and "not moved" distinctions, which I think are pretty clear, would restrict it to nine attacks at max here.
I wonder if lowering these guys to a two figure squad, and thus restricting it to six attacks at max, would be a good way to go?

It's an option but I would like to see how they go as 3 first if we could, because I'm not sure how often you could pull off a 9 attack in a game. Basically these guys are going to cover a lot of ground but to get the full 9 attacks you would have to walk fairly blindly into their territory. I could see more then the 3 attacks happening often but I would guesstimate that the average would be around the 5 attacks.

Cheers

IAmBatman March 13th, 2011 06:37 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Fair enough. We can keep that one in our back pockets, then.

A3n March 19th, 2011 08:21 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
If nobody has any concerns with the OP at this point I will send it to the ERB.


Cheers

Griffin March 19th, 2011 09:00 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
One last edit from me:

CALL FOR REINFORCEMENTS
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with the Science Police, you may roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police figure.
If you roll 17-19, choose up to 2 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
If you roll 20, choose up to 4 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
One at a time, place each chosen Science Police figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of any other Science Police figures you control on the battlefield.

IAmBatman March 20th, 2011 12:32 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
I'm in favor of sending it to the ERB, but I'm not sure if Extreme Prejudice is 100% clear right now (they might be able to help). Right now I could move the first of my three squaddies in any three figure squad, attack, and then attack with the two other figures in my three figure squad that didn't move as an automatic aspect of it being a three figure squad. I'm not sure if the current text does enough to establish that it's allowing you to do something above and beyond attacking with the three figures you activated for the squad this turn ...

SirGalahad March 20th, 2011 01:53 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1368157)
One last edit from me:

CALL FOR REINFORCEMENTS
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with the Science Police, you may roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police figure.
If you roll 17-19, choose up to 2 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
If you roll 20 or higher, choose up to 4 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
One at a time, place each chosen Science Police figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of any other Science Police figures you control on the battlefield.

And one from me.

Good Pig March 20th, 2011 03:40 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Ahem....:p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good Pig (Post 1363061)
12-16? or 18-19?

Either way one of these numbers needs to change

If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police
If you roll 17-19, choose 2 previously destroyed Science Police

There is an overlap in the d20 tier.

SirGalahad March 20th, 2011 03:53 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
12-16

Griffin March 20th, 2011 04:05 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
What, you guys have never heard of first 17 and second 17? :p

A3n March 20th, 2011 05:55 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGalahad (Post 1368462)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1368157)
One last edit from me:

CALL FOR REINFORCEMENTS
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with the Science Police, you may roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police figure.
If you roll 17-19, choose up to 2 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
If you roll 20 or higher, choose up to 4 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
One at a time, place each chosen Science Police figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of any other Science Police figures you control on the battlefield.

And one from me.

I disagree with this one. The 20-sided die only has 20 sides. So 20 is the highest you can roll if you have modifiers then you just wouldn't need to use them if you roll a 20. If the number was anything less then 20 I would agree the "or higher" is valid but not when it's the only possibility. I also believe this is how Official HS has done it also.

Cheers

Griffin March 20th, 2011 06:36 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A3n (Post 1368603)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGalahad (Post 1368462)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1368157)
One last edit from me:

CALL FOR REINFORCEMENTS
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with the Science Police, you may roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll 12-17, choose 1 previously destroyed Science Police figure.
If you roll 17-19, choose up to 2 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
If you roll 20 or higher, choose up to 4 previously destroyed Science Police figures.
One at a time, place each chosen Science Police figure on an empty space within 2 spaces of any other Science Police figures you control on the battlefield.

And one from me.

I disagree with this one. The 20-sided die only has 20 sides. So 20 is the highest you can roll if you have modifiers then you just wouldn't need to use them if you roll a 20. If the number was anything less then 20 I would agree the "or higher" is valid but not when it's the only possibility. I also believe this is how Official HS has done it also.

Cheers

You don't believe in modifying higher than 20? Really? So if you and I roll initiative and I have the initiative +8 glyph, and we both roll 20, who do you think wins? Or would you have us re-roll? In the world of games, dice, and even Heroscape, a 20-sided die is not limited to the number twenty. Sir G's change is valid and justified IMO, and I believe there are official and C3G precedents as well.

Griffin March 20th, 2011 06:37 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Or if we roll initiative and tie on a twenty, can't I remove an OM on Doctor Fate's card to make my initiative 21? I say "yes, absolutely".

SirGalahad March 20th, 2011 07:02 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
C3G has done it both ways already.

Just trying to aim for consistency.

I know it's a noble, but mostly unattainable goal.

Griffin March 20th, 2011 07:37 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Personally, I have really appreciated your quest for consistency Sir G. Keep it up please, and I am sorry if I haven't made it clear to you how much I appreciate it in the past.

Spidey'tilIDie March 20th, 2011 10:45 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the DC Unleashed set. Its model number and name is 010, 011, 012/Science Police.

Spidey'tilIDie March 20th, 2011 10:59 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Sorry for the double post.

I agree that SirG's change is needed. If 20+ is possible it needs to be addressed. Unless your intent is for it to only ever have a 5% chance. In which case, 21 or higher would be the same as 1-11, a fail.

Griffin March 20th, 2011 11:17 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
I just looked up the official FAQ and this is what it says.


Some powers (in relation to rolling the 20-sided die) say "20 or higher" some just say "20". If I roll higher than a 20 (because of other powers/glyphs) on the powers that list 20 as a max, what happens?
For any 20-sided die roll (except for initiative), any number above 20 counts the same as a 20. Initiative is different however, if you are on the glyph of lodin and roll a 20 (20+lodin=21) and your opponent rolls a 20 as well, you win the initiative roll.

Griffin March 20th, 2011 11:19 PM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
So if you roll a 17, but you have some type of modifier that gives your roll a +8, you have rolled a 25 - which equals "a 20" and "a 20 or higher". The "or higher" aspect helps the player know that they can exceed the number 20 and still succeed for the power, because "higher than 20 equals 20".

A3n March 21st, 2011 01:05 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1368783)
So if you roll a 17, but you have some type of modifier that gives your roll a +8, you have rolled a 25 - which equals "a 20" and "a 20 or higher". The "or higher" aspect helps the player know that they can exceed the number 20 and still succeed for the power, because "higher than 20 equals 20".

:neener:

Griffin March 21st, 2011 01:09 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A3n (Post 1368911)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1368783)
So if you roll a 17, but you have some type of modifier that gives your roll a +8, you have rolled a 25 - which equals "a 20" and "a 20 or higher". The "or higher" aspect helps the player know that they can exceed the number 20 and still succeed for the power, because "higher than 20 equals 20".

:neener:

I think you may have read what you wanted to read here bud. ;)

Griffin March 21st, 2011 01:11 AM

Re: The Book of Science Police - Design Phase
 
The "or higher" aspect helps players know that if they modify beyond 20, they still succeed. Without that "or higher" line, it becomes unclear whether or not they actually succeeded if they modified beyond 20, because they did not roll exactly 20.

The "or higher" line ftw. :up:


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